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Rolling Stone left out the reason why FBI raided journalist's home

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Re: Rolling Stone left out the reason why FBI raided journalist's home

#111

We should not forget that illicit images are easily 'found' in convenient places to get people put behind bars. I don't really blame this journalist for suspecting the illicit images claim may not be as true as it appears.

It's fucked up that a conspiracy theory gets the top post and actual criticisms of the reporting are at the bottom.

First day on HN?

When you ask for examples of this happening they get really mad and try to hide your question by downvoting it.

Re: Rolling Stone left out the reason why FBI raided journalist's home

#112
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it helps you feel better, this is in a thread about them getting caught and called out. There are some horrifically bad actors in our media landscape right now who are more than happy to lie or label opinion shows as "news" if makes their stock price goes up. It's good to see serious, well respected news outlets like NPR doing the hard work and calling others out on their BS.

[flagged]

Sadly your comment is an example of the problem, as it is known fact that Russia was part of the DNC hack. Beyond the media the Mueller investigation covered this, you can read related transcripts: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6887586/Yared-Tam...

Re: Rolling Stone left out the reason why FBI raided journalist's home

#113
post #35

I hate to sound like a grumpy old man [especially because I'm not...] but I'm increasingly discouraged by both (1) the media's willingness to abandon any sense of ethics or integrity, and (2) the public's willingness to unquestioningly consume everything that such media produces. We somehow crossed over an invisible line that separates "cheeky hyperbole" from "outright deceit and lies" and nobody noticed.

If it helps you feel better, this is in a thread about them getting caught and called out. There are some horrifically bad actors in our media landscape right now who are more than happy to lie or label opinion shows as "news" if makes their stock price goes up. It's good to see serious, well respected news outlets like NPR doing the hard work and calling others out on their BS.

> It's good to see serious, well respected news outlets like NPR doing the hard work and calling others out on their BS.

While I agree that NPR News bats above average they are not without their blind spots. While they may not chase clickbait or obvious ragebaiting trash, their journalists still latch onto convenient or lazy explanations all of the time.

Re: Rolling Stone left out the reason why FBI raided journalist's home

#114
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it helps you feel better, this is in a thread about them getting caught and called out. There are some horrifically bad actors in our media landscape right now who are more than happy to lie or label opinion shows as "news" if makes their stock price goes up. It's good to see serious, well respected news outlets like NPR doing the hard work and calling others out on their BS.

[flagged]

I may be misunderstanding this; can you help me out and be specific about what you mean by DNC email leaks?

If we’re talking about the Guccifer 2.0 leaks, it seems relevant to note that in October of 2016, the US intelligence community stated that they were confident that Russia was involved. Mueller also indicted 12 Russian nationals on related charges. There is currently a fair bit of evidence that yes, the Guccifer leaks were Russian based.

Now, perhaps your objection is that media outlets reported this prior to those findings. For politically charged questions like these, I’d recommend that you still include the post-facto findings I reference, since otherwise your audience could wind up with the understanding that our knowledge about the hacks is limited to the reporting you mention.

Back to the question of “auditors” — let’s once again be specific. The DNC hired CrowdStrike to investigate the hack. Their initial response and follow ups are here: https://www.crowdstrike.com/blog/bears-midst-intrusion-democ...

CrowdStrike used stronger words than “likely.” Some of them:

“We deployed our IR team and technology and immediately identified two sophisticated adversaries on the network – COZY BEAR and FANCY BEAR.”

“At DNC, COZY BEAR intrusion has been identified going back to summer of 2015, while FANCY BEAR separately breached the network in April 2016.”

The report does not go into detail on methods, for obvious reasons. But that is the statement of a company that is positive about identifications. It is reasonable for a news agency to report that CrowdStrike was certain.

It’s harder for me to track down whatever NPR article you mean. I’m open to a specific reference here! In the meantime, though:

https://www.npr.org/2016/06/14/482029912/russian-hackers-pen...

The first paragraph states the Russian source as fact, but the remainder of the article is very clear that CrowdStrike is the source. It links to this WaPo article: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/russi...

The first paragraph specifies “according to committee officials and security experts who responded to the breach.”

So… if I’m right about the hack you mean, I think you’ve chosen a bad example of media gullibility.

Re: Rolling Stone left out the reason why FBI raided journalist's home

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>case in point: the post-9/11 invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. the entire United States media apparatus united to gaslight the populace into consenting to an foreign-soil military invasion on incredibly shaky grounds, that were later proven to be completely false The invasion of Afghanistan was over their harboring of Bin Laden, and there's very strong evidence he was there until shortly after the start of the war.…

bro they gaslit the whole country into being islamophobes for a solid few years there so we'd agree with the invasion of Afghanistan, predicated upon a former CIA asset supposedly having had some hand in 9/11, and then got us to invade Iraq because of unsubstantiated and ultimately false claims as to the existence of "WMDs," and then , afterward, they told us how shamefully evil we were for having spent half of the 0…

>bro they gaslit the whole country into being islamophobes for a solid few years there so we'd agree with the invasion of Afghanistan, predicated upon a former CIA asset supposedly having had some hand in 9/11

The invasion of Afghanistan started like a month after 9/11, and there's basically no evidence Bin Laden himself had CIA connections. The Afghans that harbored him did, but not Bin Laden.

I am very critical of the US in these matters, but in a discussion about the importance of facts you should aim to be factual.

Re: Rolling Stone left out the reason why FBI raided journalist's home

#116
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>(2) the public's willingness to unquestioningly consume everything that such media produces. What? The predominate pattern today is nobody believing anything the media says. Nothing is true. The earth isn't even fucking round.

The media became untrustworthy before people stopped trusting it.

Not really. There was a concerted effort by media figures (Limbaugh, Fox, Beck, etc.) to push a false narrative that media is untrustworthy, in order to push their radical views. In a way it was self fulfilling prophecy as more and more folks listened to them it became apparent that media is failing, and other orgs have slid down that path as well.

Re: Rolling Stone left out the reason why FBI raided journalist's home

#117
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd give Rolling Stone a little bit of slack on this one. The last time they rushed to paint suspects as rapists ahead of any sort of actual trial, they got sued to hell for defamation when the allegations turned out to be fraudulent altogether. I could excuse them for being a little slower on the draw this time around. "Being investigated by the FBI" does not mean the subject is automatically guilty. My wife's ex wa…

This is the article in question: https://web.archive.org/web/20221019003915/https://www.rolli... "Now, Meek appears to be on the wrong side of the national-security apparatus. And no one can say for certain if law-enforcement officers actually removed him from the building. And thus, a riddle was born. Documents pertaining to the case remain sealed." So, according to Siegel, Rolling Stone had information that the rai…

"Appears," "no one can say for certain," "a riddle," "documents [...] remain sealed."

Re: Rolling Stone left out the reason why FBI raided journalist's home

#118
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it helps you feel better, this is in a thread about them getting caught and called out. There are some horrifically bad actors in our media landscape right now who are more than happy to lie or label opinion shows as "news" if makes their stock price goes up. It's good to see serious, well respected news outlets like NPR doing the hard work and calling others out on their BS.

I was going to point out how NPR dropped the ball [1] on the Hunter Biden story, but then found this followup [2] and i'm not sure how i feel. Is it a correction? A copout? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ [1] https://www.marketwatch.com/story/npr-explained-why-its-not-... [2] https://www.npr.org/2022/04/09/1091859822/more-details-emerg...

I mean, the whole laptop story was clearly held back and conveniently timed by political actors in an attempt to manipulate the media. I have my problems with NPR, but I'll go on the record and respect them for not playing ball and doing proper due diligence.

Re: Rolling Stone left out the reason why FBI raided journalist's home

#119
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Here the media claim that the Dutch intelligence agency AIVD had penetrated the network of the Russian "Cozy Bear" group for more than a year and caught them pretty much live on camera while they hacked the Democratic Party. https://www.volkskrant.nl/wetenschap/dutch-agencies-provide-... Wow, I wasn't aware how far the tentacles of the DNC establishment reach if they paid for that as you say!

Ah yes, the same Dutch intelligence agency that release from custody a person that stole nuclear weapons technology which enabled Pakistan to develop nuclear bombs. And did so at the behest of a foreign country. I wonder what else they'd do for a foreign country when asked?

1. All of the reporting on this in 2016 relied on the auditing I'm mentioning. Whether there was other evidence is beside the point - it wasn't something they used to influence their reporting

2. If it was known in 2014 that Cozy Bear was targeting the DNC and AIVD already had full access and knowledge of all of Cozy Bear's actions, why did they let them hack the DNC?

3. All sources say there were multiple people who had illicit access to DNC servers. There was clearly a vulnerability that multiple groups were able to exploit, and the exploiters were clearly doing nothing to prevent others from doing the same. Why are we so confident it was Cozy Bear?

4. Why did the DNC, after being told in summer 2015 that they were hacked, do nothing about this? Even the article points this out: "It is not clear why the hacks at the DNC could continue for so long despite the Dutch warnings." They continued to be allegedly hacked for more than a year since the leaked emails date as far as May 2016.

5. We're also completely ignoring that the journalist who published the emails explicitly said it was an insider who provided it, and there is no evidence that this journalist received information from Russian officials.

Literally none of this adds up to anything remotely close to conclusive.

Re: Rolling Stone left out the reason why FBI raided journalist's home

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I usually see it associated with Cronkite's era on TV, about '60-'80. Such strong association with him is part of why it smells like nostalgia and selective memory, to me. And, again, you'd find plenty of people who think he was biased and doing slanted anti-American reporting in the second of those two decades. I would hope most people wouldn't regard the '90s and '00s as part of any kind of even-imaginary golden er…

I completely agree with your assessment, but my point was, in the 90s and 00s, we were still in the bubble. we still thought of our news media as being completely trustworthy. even the post-9/11 invasions being predicated upon news media consent manufacturing wasn't enough to shake us out of it—nobody blamed the news media, Bush (and some of his cabinet) "took the fall" for the whole thing. we can look back on it now…

I think some of that's the difference between high school and college. Even today's more even-tempered history and civics classes in high school really downplay problems in our history and our systems, overall, including problems with the media, but as soon as you hit your first serious media studies textbook or course or just slip into a subculture that's into that sort of thing so assumes some familiarity with it as a background (politics nerds, certain flavors of history buffs, basically any leftist movement) you get a rather different idea of how things are going, and have gone, and realize that contemporary media criticism is part of a long tradition that's advanced similar complaints and made similar observations about structural problems with the media (access-related conflict of interest, slant via selection of what's "newsworthy", bias toward reporting violence or the otherwise shocking, ownership- or advertiser-related conflict of interest, susceptibility to lazily repeating propaganda from official sources, et c.) for pretty much the entire time this has been a field of study.

High school history class might cover e.g. yellow journalism as some temporary historical phenomenon, but won't usually dig into, say, the fact that the idea of "unbiased reporting" or "just presenting the facts" or "we report, you decide" are all kinda questionable to begin with—which facts? Which stories? When and how ought media provide context for a story, or leave it out? I can lie with facts all day long, it's not even hard. Half the lies on the actually-kinda-news segments of Fox News (yeah, sorry, still picking on them because they're an easy target) are just them reporting things without the context that makes it plainly a non-story—they're "just" reporting the facts, but it's slanted as hell, and they're deliberately implying things that aren't true by leaving out the context you need to tell that they're wrong. Take it another direction, and you can lie by providing the wrong context (not a lie in the sense of an outright falsehood! Just selective presentation). The history of media as largely explicitly partisan for much of the country's history will likely also barely be covered, and will almost certainly not be connected to the current state of media.

... but not everyone ends up seeing that expanded view. Maybe what I'm not accounting for is a recent popularization of a kind of shitty, partial, divorced-from-scholarship-and-history version of that POV, through the mechanisms and circumstances you mention, the holding of which might convince someone that this is a recent development, for lack of the rest of that context. "Now the media lies sometimes! That's new!"

I don't think the media landscape's wholly unchanging, and do thing some things like the loss of the fairness doctrine and our allowing some pretty incredible levels of media ownership consolidation has had some ill effects (though the death of the fairness doctrine would have little effect on the Internet, anyway, and the main outcome of losing it was the rise of partisan commentary and opinion without balancing counter-point, not more-slanted news—basically, it allowed the current much-maligned "media bubble" effect to get a running start way back in the 1980s, well before the rise of the Web as something normal people used, but that was mostly accomplished through commentary shows, not reporting). I'm just skeptical that we were ever a ton better off in terms of, specifically, news media honesty and integrity than we are now.

> I had a one-semester Current World Affairs class in high school in 2007, and we spent most of it watching cable news, reading newspapers, and talking about it, without any of the default critical position you'd (hopefully??) expect today.

Schools have to be damned careful how they treat current events. Parents get pissed off in a hurry over some really, really dumb shit, like "acknowledging basic things about reality that definitely shouldn't be controversial" sorts of shit, and if there's one thing schools hate dealing with, it's pissed-off parents. Start analyzing slant in media reporting in high school, as a teacher, and you're courting a reprimand even if you do your job perfectly and entirely objectively (somehow). "The closest thing to a widely-agreed-upon-to-be-neutral source we can find, presented with minimal commentary" is often the best they can realistically manage, and even that will get angry phone calls from time to time.

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