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Psychedelic brew ayahuasca’s profound impact revealed in brain scans

theguardian.com

81–90 of 97 posts

Re: Psychedelic brew ayahuasca’s profound impact revealed in brain scans

#81

I had never done any kind of drugs in my life or psychedelics, but took Ayahuasca once with friends who were in the personal wellness space circa 2010. My experience: - tastes like mud - it’s recommended to vomit after taking it, but I felt too self-conscious because we were all together in the same room - the first part of the trip was wonderful as I spent 2hours in bliss seeing colored lights, I still remember this…

Interesting read, but you would think that resolving some of that past trauma that was hidden would allow you to transition into a state that isn't your old "normal", but a nice halfway between your arrogant 10x present self and your old self chained by trauma. Perhaps this experience when bundled with a professional could have great impacts that are permanent, as long as you don't start fighting the therapist I supp…

actually yeah, some of the friends I did it with actually mixed it with therapy and did dozens of sessions and it helped them tremendously.

Re: Psychedelic brew ayahuasca’s profound impact revealed in brain scans

#82
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe whats happening at a certain level all brains encode an abstract conscious reality-stream in a similar way, and as such distortions to the brain manifest in similar ways for everyone. The fact that DMT entities are so common tells us that the perception of other consciousness's is a primitive attribute in however our world-state is managed by the brain. Flip a few random bits in an image, you get pixels. Fl…

Have you tried it?

DMT? Personally, tried but it was a bad order that simply failed to work as advertised. Psychedelics more generally? Yeah.

Re: Psychedelic brew ayahuasca’s profound impact revealed in brain scans

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different type of psychedelic, different trip experience... also synthetic whereas ayahuasca can be fully natural and traditional

synthetic = no assurance of actual dosage (without accurate testing). natural = some assurance?

I think it's the other way around, where synthetic hallucinogens can be fully purified and measured, but brews of naturally occurring hallucinogens depend on how saturated the plant ended up being that time.

But taking a natural brew in a temple or something has a different set and setting than taking a synthetic chemical like LSD. It's also closer to tradition, and promotes the idea that the drug trip is a religious or spiritual experience.

IOW I think the use of ayahuasca over LSD is mainly symbolic, but DMT (as used in ayahuasca) does have its differences (though I do not know them).

Re: Psychedelic brew ayahuasca’s profound impact revealed in brain scans

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - I got more confrontational which almost got me into fights, but also got me laid These systems are likely deeply tangled up in your biology. Robert Sapolsky has a Stanford lecture series on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNnIGh9g6fA Well worth a watch!

How can it be deeply tangled up in his biology if it can be changed by taking a drug?

biology is just applied chemistry

Re: Psychedelic brew ayahuasca’s profound impact revealed in brain scans

#86
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Afterglow is a layman's term but tells you nothing of the science. After the high does of amines (serotonin analog) which results in a drastic change serotonin receptor densities. It takes a while fro these receptors densities to return to normal. DMT behaves as an agonist at both 5-HT2A and 5-HT2C receptors. There is nothing more to the magic than that. P.S. I have the same experience as being on DMT and I do not ta…

Since you try to bring scientific rigor into the discussion, could you point me to some evidence that the epiphenomal effects of the named condition are clearly merely caused by a temporary increase in receptor densities? Having taken several neuroscience classes, I think that claim is a gross oversimplification and an overly reductionist take on the incredibly complex topic at hand. > So tell me again how this is be…

> could you point me to some evidence that the epiphenomal effects of the named condition are clearly merely caused by a temporary increase in receptor densities?

When someone takes prozac and tries to stop, they have withdrawal effects. Prozac increases serotonin which increases receptor density.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1014862808126

Why should this be any different from DMT?

I have been studying neurobiology for 20 years. I thought a lot of things that I found out were wrong.

Re: Psychedelic brew ayahuasca’s profound impact revealed in brain scans

#87

This drug normalisation in media makes me so sad. For few lads with life changing ayahuasca trip there is a hundred depresive and miserable trips, also lasting for months! And if someone dares to speak up, reply is "oh your set & setting was wrong". Drugs are wrong, it's high risk substance with highest probability to mess you up and minuscule to give any longer lasting benefit.

I have slightly-conflicted opinions about this.

On one paw, I'm disappointed with how normalized, say, caffeine is, and how many people accidentally fall victim to caffeine dependence out of carelessness. In many cases, one's inability to function before their daily cup of coffee didn't exist before they got addicted. (Nowadays people at least know how terrible nicotine is, but most still think vaping it is OK for some reason... but I digress.) On the other paw, I'm also not exactly a supporter of the idea that "drugs are wrong", as you so kindly put it.

(Some people need caffeine to help an existing condition just like some people with ADHD might need stimulants, obviously I'm not talking about that but rather completely healthy people who develop a dependence on caffeine because they think it's completely safe and harmless.)

I believe that proper education about drugs would enable people to use them safely and responsibly—rather than the current situation where pervasive propaganda prevents many people from obtaining the education they would need to do so (also known as "harm reduction"). They can't tell the signal from the noise, so they have to shut everything out, even safety tips that would help them.

Don't get me wrong, not everything you hear about drugs is propaganda. For example, methamphetamine and MDMA are significantly neurotoxic and can wreck your brain and your life very easily and quickly. Heroin is so madly addictive that one often stops being of sound mind once they've taken even a single dose, if it's high enough.

But ayahuasca (DMT), or LSD? They are of course to be respected and used responsibly, but they are not "wrong" in and of themselves. Yes, there are ways to abuse them, and they are capable of facilitating severe mental damage and permanent impairment—but that doesn't mean they're simply wrong, even if they are risky.

You explicitly dismissed this but I want to say it anyway: set and setting matter a lot when you take a psychedelic. "set" represents your entire mental state. It consists of your mood, your hopes and dreams, your anxieties and traumas, your goals, and so on. People who get a bad trip were stung by set. Not because "drugs are wrong".

Psychedelics do not directly cause depression or misery or trauma—they give your brain the capability to create those experiences for itself. They create unrestrained thought and an experience that isn't subject to the usual moderation. Of course you can traumatize yourself on LSD—your barriers are down. You're vulnerable to your own thoughts. By taking LSD you are taking responsibility for what you do to yourself while you are on it, and what mental state you are in when the trip starts.

Drugs aren't wrong, they're just formidable.

Re: Psychedelic brew ayahuasca’s profound impact revealed in brain scans

#88
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you try to bring scientific rigor into the discussion, could you point me to some evidence that the epiphenomal effects of the named condition are clearly merely caused by a temporary increase in receptor densities? Having taken several neuroscience classes, I think that claim is a gross oversimplification and an overly reductionist take on the incredibly complex topic at hand. > So tell me again how this is be…

> could you point me to some evidence that the epiphenomal effects of the named condition are clearly merely caused by a temporary increase in receptor densities? When someone takes prozac and tries to stop, they have withdrawal effects. Prozac increases serotonin which increases receptor density. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1014862808126 Why should this be any different from DMT? I have been studying…

> https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1014862808126

1. The results of this study are about long-term treatment, not a single dose.

2. The study makes absolutely zero claims about the epiphenomenal effects of receptor site increases/decreases, as far as I can see. That is your interpretation (with no evidence.) Sure, people describe withdrawal effects after quitting a drug that made them feel good, and there might be a correlation with decreasing receptor sites and those withdrawal symptoms, but you have not established any causal links, the main point I asked you about.

3. In the original comment you associated the generally positive effects that the OOP described as a consequence of decreasing serotonin receptor sites. Yet then you make a claim based on this study that decreasing receptor sites cause negative withdrawal effects. It very much seems like those two claims contradict themselves? Honestly a bit confused here what you're trying to say.

> I have been studying neurobiology for 20 years.

Well that's impressive. May I ask what your h-index is?

Re: Psychedelic brew ayahuasca’s profound impact revealed in brain scans

#89
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One take on psychedelics I find intriguing is that instead of providing actual deep insights, they simulate it. While you are high, everything just seems profound and mystical, but there is really nothing there, it is an artifact of the distorted brain chemistry. I find this makes sense because in my experience, people that regularly take psychedelics do not seem wiser or more insightful to me than people who don't.…

Just spitballing and I have no particular expertise. I do not have experience with Ayahausca, but I do have experience with Psylocibin, LSD, Ketamine, Salvia Divinorum, and a few other things. Psychedelics disrupt the Default Mode Network (this has been shown in brain imaging studies), which the brain process which covers internally directed thought, self-reflection, self-criticism, etc, and that this disruption appe…

"Many people are experimenting with the drug ecstasy. I heard you say once that a lie is sweet in the beginning and bitter in the end, and truth is bitter in the beginning, and sweet in the end. I have been meditating, but I don't have the experiences people report from the drug ecstasy. Is the drug like the lie, and meditation the truth? Or am I missing something that could really help me?"

Re: Psychedelic brew ayahuasca’s profound impact revealed in brain scans

#90
post #45

DMT triggered severe anxiety in my that lasted 4 years. It was hell. It ruined my life

Set & setting?

It was for therapeutic purposes. That was the mindset. The setting was perfect, comfortable home
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