Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Consider Phlebas Published by the Folio Society

foliosociety.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 103 posts

Re: Consider Phlebas Published by the Folio Society

#61

Post by giraffe_lady »

doctoboggan wrote: post #60
giraffe_lady wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true that it's an awkward entry point, but it's not necessarily a bad one. It's the worst book of the series imo, so if I wanted someone to read the whole series I wouldn't start them there. But it also covers events that are directly or indirectly significant to the plot or setting of... most... of the other books. So if you are going to read them all, you get more out of the rest for having read it first.

Good to hear you think its one of the weaker ones, I didn't love it personally. (I thought the setting was awesome but struggled a little bit with the motivations of most of the characters). I've heard enough good things about the series however to know I am going to read most/all of them! Which book if your favorite?

I remember liking Look to Windward and Excession a lot, I think because they're centrally about the lives and motivations of the minds. For that reason though they may be better later, once you've got more exposure to and questions about their actions and experiences.

Surface Detail also really stuck with me for its unique conflict & setting. It's about a war over the fates of people unwillingly uploaded into a simulation of hell after their deaths. With the soldiers being continually "reincarnated" back into different iterations of the same fight. Banks has a really unsettling edge to a lot of his stuff that is just barely kept out of view in a lot of the culture books, but this one he just lets it rip and it's very effective.

Re: Consider Phlebas Published by the Folio Society

#62

Post by prewett »

dsr_ wrote: post #35
jaqalopes wrote: post #23

Consider Phlebas was such an odd entry point into the Culture series. In a way it makes more sense as a prequel, to be read after you understand the world and the general conceit of the series. In fact, I think Consider Phlebas is better upon rereading than it was going in cold. In this light, I'm kind of surprised I went on to read the other books after starting with this one. But, I'm incredibly glad I did, and I r…

There are books which are fully juiced on their first reading. All of Banks' novels have additional liquid to savor after several pressings.

I like your analogy, but I need help seeing how it applies to Consider Phlebas. From my perspective, the story is pretty arbitrary. The aliens have arbitrary features that have no internal reason for they must inevitably be that and not something else. Similarly for characters and plot points. There's a ringworld, but with none of Niven's exploration into the nature of a ringworld. (Fair enough, just borrow from Niven, it just doesn't add any juice.) The gambling game and island cult are interesting, but both are deeply grotesque and kind of counter-examples of treating people well. The Culture seems like Progressivism plus American self-assured knowledge that their system of life is obviously the only right way to behave. (Not arrogance, which is putting down others, or cockiness which has naivite, but just the lack of introspection to even see other perspectives. It reminds me of the smart bombs the US talked about in the Iraq War, as if a "righteous" war with weapons that only killed hostiles and not innocents is morally acceptable. I'm somewhat sympathetic to that idea [assuming it were implementable], but I can also see how that is not terribly compatible with the idea of a peaceful nation promoting democracy, but the messaging did not seem to have any cognitive dissonance.) I do think managing to make the Culture feel like modern America, but two or three decades prior is pretty impressive, but I don't see what extra juice there is. There is no critique of the Culture as far as I can tell (or any justification, for that matter), it just IS and everyone else has to deal with it.

I guess I just don't see where any extra juice is going to come from. Canticle for Leibowitz has a beautiful meditation on human nature. Diaspora shows several very non-arbitrary forms of life, discusses disobeying a person's expressly stated values to save their life, and touches on the consequences of immortality and immortality alone. In comparison, I struggle to see how Consider Phlebas is anything other than solid C-grade sci-fi.

Re: Consider Phlebas Published by the Folio Society

#63

Post by NikolaNovak »

iamacyborg wrote: post #14
NikolaNovak wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was special / good about that publication? It's signed by somebody I can best understand as "Not Ian M. Banks", and the description doesn't really tell me anything about "hardware", nor do they have a photo of the product :-/

SubPress make very good, high quality books. Sometimes it's just quite nice to own a nicely made physical object for something you deeply enjoy.

Right, but at $250, can anybody provide any details of how good these high quality books are?

I don't know if I came off antagonistic, but I'm actually coming from position of genuine curiosity; the webpage linked describes plot of the book (I love Mr. Banks to death and have gifted use of weapons to more than one person, so I'm interested in a good copy:), but it doesn't have a photo of the product, and doesn't tell me where my $250 go to - what is the binding? What is the paper? Is there special typeset? Are there some bespoke illustrations? What is, actually, good about it? (to other people's points, I'm sure Mr. McLeod is a fine writer and a splendid human being, and to some his signature on Iain M. Banks' book adds value, sentimental or otherwise; it does not to me but that's subjective:).

Re: Consider Phlebas Published by the Folio Society

#64

Post by JonChesterfield »

segphault wrote: post #47
jaqalopes wrote: post #23

Consider Phlebas was such an odd entry point into the Culture series. In a way it makes more sense as a prequel, to be read after you understand the world and the general conceit of the series. In fact, I think Consider Phlebas is better upon rereading than it was going in cold. In this light, I'm kind of surprised I went on to read the other books after starting with this one. But, I'm incredibly glad I did, and I r…

Your comment makes me wonder if I should give the series another chance. I only read Consider Phlebas and didn't continue with the series because I found the book so frustrating. It felt like there was a ton of context missing. I kept expecting it to provide some details about the culture that would justify the protagonist's antipathy towards it, but a coherent explanation for his world view never materialized.

Excession is spectacular. The focus is on the machine intelligence as opposed to the people.

Re: Consider Phlebas Published by the Folio Society

#65

Post by PicassoCTs »

gpderetta wrote: post #40
substation13 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a fun action novel; I loved the part with the cult on the island. But yeah, it has nothing on Player of Games.

Consider Phlebas was my third Culture novel after Use of Weapons and Player of Games. I very much enjoyed it, but definitely didn't enjoy the Island cult bit!

Its a acquired taste.. it was a fascinating insight though, into a luxurious, post-scarcity societies tolerance for extremes, as long as they all did what they did out of choice, not even a machine could overrule them.

I love, how the tragic choices of the "organics" are mirrored hinted as part of the PTSD of the orbital in "Look to the winward", which can "relive" the destruction of orbitals, ships and worlds in the idiran war in perfect detail. It could have zapped the mindstates of the mortals, like the meat-fucker (Sleeper Service), but choose to not do so out of respect for the choices.

The whole book part of the orbital, was a careful flashed out testing of the extremes of a highly hedonistic, machine governed society thrown in a "culture" war against religious zealots and it explored those themes well.

Re: Consider Phlebas Published by the Folio Society

#66

Post by buildbot »

gpderetta wrote: post #40
substation13 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a fun action novel; I loved the part with the cult on the island. But yeah, it has nothing on Player of Games.

Consider Phlebas was my third Culture novel after Use of Weapons and Player of Games. I very much enjoyed it, but definitely didn't enjoy the Island cult bit!

Use of Weapons is typically what I recommend as the first book to read, it was mine, and it was mind blowing. The Chair...

Re: Consider Phlebas Published by the Folio Society

#68

Post by bitwize »

dekhn wrote: post #32
blueridge wrote: post #13

I love a properly made book, though I don't buy Folio Society books due to the illustrations. Don't get my wrong, they're beautiful, but any time a book has illustrations it feels like I don't get to use my imagination (as much) for world building. The drawings seem to overwrite my own image-making process for characters, environments, etc. I don't like it. Another example: I was re-reading the Lord of the Rings rece…

When I read norse mythology, I can't unsee this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/159017125X (D'Aulaire's Book of Norse Myths)

The illustrations in their Greek myths book were how the Greek gods and heroes looked to me for many years.

Re: Consider Phlebas Published by the Folio Society

#69

Post by thebooktocome »

rsynnott wrote: post #38

Slightly odd that they went for possibly the least-beloved Culture novel. I suppose it's the first published (though not the first written, IIRC), but it's not a _great_ representation of the series.

Amazon is theoretically making an adaptation of it Any Day Now (tm). So perhaps it has marginally more name recognition than Player of Games.

Re: Consider Phlebas Published by the Folio Society

#70

Post by jimjimjim »

JonChesterfield wrote: post #64
segphault wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment makes me wonder if I should give the series another chance. I only read Consider Phlebas and didn't continue with the series because I found the book so frustrating. It felt like there was a ton of context missing. I kept expecting it to provide some details about the culture that would justify the protagonist's antipathy towards it, but a coherent explanation for his world view never materialized.

Excession is spectacular. The focus is on the machine intelligence as opposed to the people.

Totally. I've re-read excession multiple times and it's still my favorite.
Post reply on HN