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Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

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Re: Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

#61

Post by 908B64B197 »

kodah wrote: post #12

When I was working in Afghanistan I met a decent number of interpreters and Afghani leaders that were former forced fighters. I even guarded one while he was being interviewed and jailed, he was the first of a few that I'd end up meeting. The story that sticks with me is the last one and I think will sit with me for the rest of my life. I was back at my units "home" base where they spent most of a year. Recently US a…

> They had been debating on whether to tell him because he was surely going to the jail in Kabul where he would likely be hanged

What a sad ending.

> This will be how I forever remember the Taliban and sister groups like Al Queda.

Something that amazed me was to see how fast the ANA capitulated.

Billions of dollars were spent on education and training for the Afghan army so that they could stand against the Taliban. I was expecting the population to be very happy to get rid of them for good, seeing how they were treated under their regime. And yet it only took them a few weeks to completely undo decades of work. This reeked of double allegiance. In some regions, the village elders accompanied by ANA soldiers were welcoming the Taliban and cheering for their return. No fights. Worse, ANA soldiers were seen giving military supplies to the Taliban.

Apparently, families frequently sent their sons to fight on both sides of the conflict.

Re: Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

#62

Post by 908B64B197 »

rdevsrex wrote: post #36
miroljub wrote: post #6

[flagged]

It's not the same, but there are similarities. It's not like the US hasn't knowingly killed civilians before. And speaking of the war in Ukraine, I truly believe the US provoked Russia. Of course, Russia is responsible for its war crimes, but the US and its allies are the ones who wanted to encircle Russia by expanding NATO eastwards, even after they promised not to. There was a time when we could have made Russia an…

> but the US and its allies are the ones who wanted to encircle Russia by expanding NATO eastwards, even after they promised not to.

Yeah, there's absolutely no desire from the local populations to join the EU and NATO at all...

Re: Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

#63

Post by justsomehnguy »

kl_r wrote: post #56
rdevsrex wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the same, but there are similarities. It's not like the US hasn't knowingly killed civilians before. And speaking of the war in Ukraine, I truly believe the US provoked Russia. Of course, Russia is responsible for its war crimes, but the US and its allies are the ones who wanted to encircle Russia by expanding NATO eastwards, even after they promised not to. There was a time when we could have made Russia an…

> [..] but the US and its allies are the ones who wanted to encircle Russia by expanding NATO eastwards, even after they promised not to. This is simply not correct, and even Gorbachev has confirmed this. There has never been any agreement stating that NATO is not allowed to accept new members in any particular direction. There were statements made by western politicians but never any pen to paper. The sovereign stat…

> There were statements made by western politicians but never any pen to paper

Thanks, you just confirmed that you shall never trust what America says till you have that in writing.

Re: Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

#64

Post by kerblang »

The amount of spite and hatred in the comments here are a little bit surprising... But here's a question: Do you believe this man wants the wrong things? Do you believe his desire for freedom, and his willingness to sacrifice everything for it is all foolishness and lies? I am hoping not. I already know how much you hate the USA and other western governments, but I'm just wondering whether you despise the principles that they are meant to represent, especially to the article's author.

Re: Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

#65

Post by kodah »

bo-tato wrote: post #60
kodah wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a world of infinite possibilities it is possible, but I doubt it. I spent a year in Helmand and Nimroz. In that time I watched the Taliban attack our bases with three large, at times overwhelming attacks. I watched them gather on mountain tops as we turned bases over to the ANA and proceed to slaughter them after we left. Lastly, and maybe most importantly, I believe the stories of forced fighters who had their fa…

Interesting, thanks for sharing your experience. I don't doubt the Taliban is evil, but I don't think they're stupid. That they hold family hostage to force people to fight for them I can easily believe. That they kill the family of someone that just carried out an attack for them, and hasn't betrayed them or anything, seems counterproductive for them. As far as I understand paramilitary are part of almost all armed…

They're absolutely not stupid, but I think you underestimate the ideology that lives heavily in the Taliban. They likely believe they delivered his family to a better life.

You are right about paramilitaries, but the governor's of districts in Afghanistan ran their own militaries that are not Geneva bound. That said, in this particular part of Helmand I don't remember seeing many ANA.

Re: Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

#66

Post by kodah »

908B64B197 wrote: post #61
kodah wrote: post #12

When I was working in Afghanistan I met a decent number of interpreters and Afghani leaders that were former forced fighters. I even guarded one while he was being interviewed and jailed, he was the first of a few that I'd end up meeting. The story that sticks with me is the last one and I think will sit with me for the rest of my life. I was back at my units "home" base where they spent most of a year. Recently US a…

> They had been debating on whether to tell him because he was surely going to the jail in Kabul where he would likely be hanged What a sad ending. > This will be how I forever remember the Taliban and sister groups like Al Queda. Something that amazed me was to see how fast the ANA capitulated. Billions of dollars were spent on education and training for the Afghan army so that they could stand against the Taliban.…

I have long sat with a post I want to publish about being a Marine during those times. I watched as President Obama and Vice President Biden told people countlessly how well the training was going, that the takeover was progressing despite generals raising internal warnings, there were messages broadcast across SIPR about troops being shot in the back during training and operations by their counterparts. I served with a Gunny that was awarded a Bronze Star with a V because when his counterpart patrol was ambushed all of the ANA ran and left them to fight off a strong contingent by themselves. The administration lied to fullfil their desires to be free of Afghanistan rather than doing the arduous work of freeing Afghanis. You're spot on about the ANA giving away supplies and doing other things, but I suspect this was out of fear and coercion knowing that they were not ready and our ROE was significantly dialed down to the point that we could not protect them.

I hesitate to publish it because, frankly, I think it'd be co-opted by the right and ignored by the left. If meaningful change is to be made for future wars, both of them need to sit up straight and listen with sober ears.

Re: Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

#67

Post by 908B64B197 »

kodah wrote: post #66
908B64B197 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They had been debating on whether to tell him because he was surely going to the jail in Kabul where he would likely be hanged What a sad ending. > This will be how I forever remember the Taliban and sister groups like Al Queda. Something that amazed me was to see how fast the ANA capitulated. Billions of dollars were spent on education and training for the Afghan army so that they could stand against the Taliban.…

I have long sat with a post I want to publish about being a Marine during those times. I watched as President Obama and Vice President Biden told people countlessly how well the training was going, that the takeover was progressing despite generals raising internal warnings, there were messages broadcast across SIPR about troops being shot in the back during training and operations by their counterparts. I served wit…

> there were messages broadcast across SIPR about troops being shot in the back during training and operations by their counterparts. I served with a Gunny that was awarded a Bronze Star with a V because when his counterpart patrol was ambushed all of the ANA ran and left them to fight off a strong contingent by themselves.

> rather than doing the arduous work of freeing Afghanis. [...] but I suspect this was out of fear and coercion knowing that they were not ready

Did they want to be free at all?

To me it sounds completely alien. A regime that abducts and coerce people into fighting for them should be fought tooth and nail by the population.

Re: Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

#68

Post by kodah »

908B64B197 wrote: post #67
kodah wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have long sat with a post I want to publish about being a Marine during those times. I watched as President Obama and Vice President Biden told people countlessly how well the training was going, that the takeover was progressing despite generals raising internal warnings, there were messages broadcast across SIPR about troops being shot in the back during training and operations by their counterparts. I served wit…

> there were messages broadcast across SIPR about troops being shot in the back during training and operations by their counterparts. I served with a Gunny that was awarded a Bronze Star with a V because when his counterpart patrol was ambushed all of the ANA ran and left them to fight off a strong contingent by themselves. > rather than doing the arduous work of freeing Afghanis. [...] but I suspect this was out of…

I think so. They've been through generations of fighting, from internal to external, and people are tired. Religion, and the extremism of the Taliban's doctrine is also very pervasive and not something to be underestimated.

To contrast this, if you go to Kabul people wear jeans, go to nightclubs, women attend university - it's very modern and still Muslim. Most of what I've described occurs in the rural parts of Afghanistan which are predominately not served by Afghanistan's government and are thus co-opted by the Taliban and other groups.

Re: Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

#69

Post by kodah »

kerblang wrote: post #64

The amount of spite and hatred in the comments here are a little bit surprising... But here's a question: Do you believe this man wants the wrong things? Do you believe his desire for freedom, and his willingness to sacrifice everything for it is all foolishness and lies? I am hoping not. I already know how much you hate the USA and other western governments, but I'm just wondering whether you despise the principles…

HN is a vacuum with respect to understanding war. Most people here are privileged enough to have fled from war outright or to have not been participating in it. That's not to say their perspectives are without value but I'd take them with a grain of salt and a side of empathy.

Re: Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

#70

Post by tut-urut-utut »

pjc50 wrote: post #54
rdevsrex wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the same, but there are similarities. It's not like the US hasn't knowingly killed civilians before. And speaking of the war in Ukraine, I truly believe the US provoked Russia. Of course, Russia is responsible for its war crimes, but the US and its allies are the ones who wanted to encircle Russia by expanding NATO eastwards, even after they promised not to. There was a time when we could have made Russia an…

> There was a time when we could have made Russia an ally That was at best a narrow window in the 90s. The Russians backed Serbia during the Yugoslav war.

And that’s wrong because?
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