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Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

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Re: Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

#41

Post by BiteCode_dev »

rdevsrex wrote: post #36
miroljub wrote: post #6

[flagged]

It's not the same, but there are similarities. It's not like the US hasn't knowingly killed civilians before. And speaking of the war in Ukraine, I truly believe the US provoked Russia. Of course, Russia is responsible for its war crimes, but the US and its allies are the ones who wanted to encircle Russia by expanding NATO eastwards, even after they promised not to. There was a time when we could have made Russia an…

The most popular theory for the North Stream sabotage is that the US did it, so there is that.

Re: Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

#42

Post by krapp »

mc32 wrote: post #9
causi wrote: post #5

And for what? Today, Iraq is struggling to rebuild itself. Iran and ISIS remain a serious threat. The Americans hoped to build a Jeffersonian republic in the heart of the Middle East, and failed. The whole thing seems like a horrible, tragic mistake. I disagree. This is a bold statement for someone who left Iraq fourteen years ago and never went back. Probably the current regime is better than Saddam. Is it so much b…

The world is not clear-cut black and white. Few are completely bad or completely good. Maybe no-one is. Sanguinely, the world is realpolitik and the good must do some bad to increase good. Also the bad do some good in order that they may continue to do bad. On balance was it good? It's an open question. Should the world have let Saddam initiate an Iraq-Iran War II? Was he bluffing? We don't know -he's dead. Maybe cou…

>On balance was it good? It's an open question.

No, it isn't an open question. The United States dragged the world into a war based on lies and false pretenses. It invaded and destroyed a sovereign state, allowing museums and priceless cultural artifacts to be looted and burned, murdered millions of people - Iraqis and allies - and left a broken country to the depredations of the insurgent forces their own ham-fisted belligerance created.

And no one knows why. It wasn't because of WMD, that was bullshit. Not because Iraqi intelligence had a hand in 9/11. Not yellowcake from Africa. All lies. Not even for the oil. We didn't even take the fucking oil. Why? Because the neocons already had plans to Christianize and democratize the Middle East? Because Bush wanted to cement his family's legacy? Because Afghanistan wasn't big enough to satisfy American bloodlust against Muslims post 9/11?

It was evil. Unqualified evil. Absolute evil. Evil that will have the United States mentioned in the same breath as Nazi Germany for the next hundred years.

Re: Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

#43

Post by stametseater »

pjc50 wrote: post #14
mc32 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world is not clear-cut black and white. Few are completely bad or completely good. Maybe no-one is. Sanguinely, the world is realpolitik and the good must do some bad to increase good. Also the bad do some good in order that they may continue to do bad. On balance was it good? It's an open question. Should the world have let Saddam initiate an Iraq-Iran War II? Was he bluffing? We don't know -he's dead. Maybe cou…

> Bush and Obama are rehabilitated I'm fairly sure that most of the leftists who complained about Bush back then have not rehabilitated him, they've just added more people to the front of the list.

[flagged]

Re: Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

#44

Post by bo-tato »

kodah wrote: post #12

When I was working in Afghanistan I met a decent number of interpreters and Afghani leaders that were former forced fighters. I even guarded one while he was being interviewed and jailed, he was the first of a few that I'd end up meeting. The story that sticks with me is the last one and I think will sit with me for the rest of my life. I was back at my units "home" base where they spent most of a year. Recently US a…

Why do you assume the taliban killed his family? if they go around killing family of people that do bombings for them they aren't going to find many people willing in the future. I know nothing of afghanistan but where I'm from (latin america) the US has a long history of training paramilitaries and death squads. My guess just based on that story would be US or Georgian connected paramilitary group killing his family as retribution for killing one of their own, and as a message to scare future people from working with the taliban.

Re: Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

#45

Post by vuln »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #41
rdevsrex wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the same, but there are similarities. It's not like the US hasn't knowingly killed civilians before. And speaking of the war in Ukraine, I truly believe the US provoked Russia. Of course, Russia is responsible for its war crimes, but the US and its allies are the ones who wanted to encircle Russia by expanding NATO eastwards, even after they promised not to. There was a time when we could have made Russia an…

The most popular theory for the North Stream sabotage is that the US did it, so there is that.

President Biden said the US was going to stop it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OS4O8rGRLf8

Re: Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

#46

Post by WhereIsTheTruth »

More then few millions.. not just "hundreds of thousands", i don't like the way it is worded

He most likely used data from a survey in 2007 [1], hence i'll question the integrity of the article

Already mentions millions in 2008 [2]

> More than one million Iraqis have died as a result of the conflict in their country since the U.S.-led invasion in 2003

And 2.4 millions in 2016 [3]

> But our calculations, using the best information available, show a catastrophic estimate of 2.4 million Iraqi deaths since the 2003 invasion.

[1] - https://web.archive.org/web/20090422225308/https://surveys.a...

[2] - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iraq-deaths-survey-idUSL3...

[3] - https://www.salon.com/2018/03/19/the-staggering-death-toll-i...

Re: Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

#47

Post by qikInNdOutReply »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #40
qikInNdOutReply wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im saying, that the structure of empire, does not give a damn about the values, it corrupts all, infiltrates all, from the highest king to the lowest peasant, the mindset starts to differ, the values start to differ, the processes start to devolve and dissolve, turning a democratic process of searching for compromise into a partisan war of conquest. The outcome is the same, but one struggles against it and the other…

I agree, but that is not widely understood. A lot of people still think the USA are angels liberating the world.

Well, compared to the alternatives that go around, dressed up in nice propaganda but horrific beneath.. they still kind of are even though heavily deformed by 70 years of empire.

Re: Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

#48

Post by mc32 »

krapp wrote: post #42
mc32 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world is not clear-cut black and white. Few are completely bad or completely good. Maybe no-one is. Sanguinely, the world is realpolitik and the good must do some bad to increase good. Also the bad do some good in order that they may continue to do bad. On balance was it good? It's an open question. Should the world have let Saddam initiate an Iraq-Iran War II? Was he bluffing? We don't know -he's dead. Maybe cou…

>On balance was it good? It's an open question. No, it isn't an open question. The United States dragged the world into a war based on lies and false pretenses. It invaded and destroyed a sovereign state, allowing museums and priceless cultural artifacts to be looted and burned, murdered millions of people - Iraqis and allies - and left a broken country to the depredations of the insurgent forces their own ham-fisted…

It's an open question because we don't know how things would have panned out if Iraq had continued under Saddam. He might have gone for Iraq-Iran War II with the commensurate casualties, or he may have mellowed out and been much better off than the Bush alternative. We don't know, therefore it's an open question.

But, yes, we should have a congressional inquiry with teeth to find out why and punish wrongdoers and establish a precedence by congress that a president cannot go sending American soldiers to war capriciously without having to answer why and have convincing reasons.

Re: Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

#49

Post by comte7092 »

sofixa wrote: post #17
miroljub wrote: post #6

[flagged]

I smell sarcasm, but still, you're not that wrong. The motivation absolutely matters - US Imperialism is much softer, even in it's war crimes, than Russian Imperialism that comes with genocide bundled. In the former case where it hurts is that they try to paint a rosy picture (freedom and democracy etc.) while committing war crimes / invading left and right for business interests, and that hypocrisy is very annoying.…

The US actively supported death squads, drug trafficking, and dictators in Central America in the 80s. Nothing about what the US did during the Cold War (and realistically the “war on terror”) could even remotely be called “soft”, or for “good intentions”.

Propaganda is when other countries sell a narrative.

Re: Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

#50

Post by comte7092 »

newaccount2023 wrote: post #27
pjc50 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bush and Obama are rehabilitated I'm fairly sure that most of the leftists who complained about Bush back then have not rehabilitated him, they've just added more people to the front of the list.

> I'm fairly sure that most of the leftists who complained about Bush back then have not rehabilitated him they did after he trash talked Trump apparently saying "grab her by the p----y" is worse than starting two wars

Name one leftist who got on that bandwagon.
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