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YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

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Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#171

Post by Peaker »

potatolicious wrote: post #166
Peaker wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way is the world a better place when you have to reimplement the design from scratch - as opposed to a world where anyone can copy a design (assuming some credit is given)? Sounds like the latter world will free up a lot of resources for more useful creative work.

Because of the fundamental concept of property, and ownership, and the right to control your own creations? It's one thing to voluntarily release something into the public domain (or enable its direct re-use via licenses like Creative Commons). It's another thing to say that all work should be public property, usable as long as credit is given. Or are you suggesting that everything belongs to the People, comrade? Eve…

But we're talking about ideas and expressions, not property.

Yes, the WBC should be allowed to copy if everyone else is.

The benefits seem to me to dwarf the downsides.

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#172

Post by Peaker »

jsavimbi wrote: post #113
Peaker wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way is the world a better place when you have to reimplement the design from scratch - as opposed to a world where anyone can copy a design (assuming some credit is given)? Sounds like the latter world will free up a lot of resources for more useful creative work.

Assuming credit is granted. Creatives work on design to be creative; they don't outright steal it to save time and resources. It's what thy do and witness what happens when you cross them.

I think the OP is about copyright infringement and plagiarism, which is a form of fraud. I do not justify it but it is not theft.

I don't think the world has much to benefit from plagiarism, but I think the benefits of copying others' work and building upon them freely far outweigh the downsides.

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#173

Post by jakejake »

This is an honest question, I'd be curious to hear how you might differentiate this from music and movie sharing? I hope that people won't just down-vote me without responding. I am truly curious because I myself have mixed feelings about all of these issues as both a content creator as well as a consumer. It's hard for me to understand why certain types of art must be free for all, but others are defended vigorously.

I've seen this happen several times before where someone uses photos, design or article text without permission, gets busted and winds up on the tech forums. The tech community generally tends to get pretty noisy about how despicable they find it.

It strikes me as interesting because one of the piracy arguments is that it's not stealing because the original author didn't lose anything. In this case (well aside from the hot-linking bandwidth) the original authors didn't lose anything.

If all intellectual property should be free, shouldn't this be perfectly fine to use art and graphics and such as well? Why is it ok for 37signals to have any claim of ownership over these things when musicians who do so are criticized for not understanding.

Is the difference the way the material is being used? It because curbit is using this in a corporate setting? People who are in favor of file sharing, does that not apply to design and software? Does it only apply to individual, personal use? What about sites who host music and have banner ads, are they ok? What if I use a song in my YouTube video, is that the same thing? How about some photos for a YouTube slide show?

Thanks for any thoughts!

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#174

Post by visegrip »

Epic fail on all parties. Y combinator encourages 10 finger theft for not doing it's part in due diligence. Maybe it's because Y-combinator supports SOPA and want's to lead by example. 37 signal clearly shows supports for SOPA by making a big F deal about this publicly. Than you have Curebit clearly taking investors for a ride. Clearly a Breach of contract!

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#175

Post by nfriedly »

I definitely feel that Curebit was in the wrong here, but the “fucking scumbags” comment cost DHH most of the respect I had for him. If he's willing to say something like that in public and on the record about someone he's never met, then I don't think I'd ever want to spend any time working with him.

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#176

Post by stevenp »

jakejake wrote: post #173

This is an honest question, I'd be curious to hear how you might differentiate this from music and movie sharing? I hope that people won't just down-vote me without responding. I am truly curious because I myself have mixed feelings about all of these issues as both a content creator as well as a consumer. It's hard for me to understand why certain types of art must be free for all, but others are defended vigorously…

There's a difference between downloading music (albeit illegally) and taking someone else's work and trying to pass it off as your own. When I download a Duran Duran album, I don't post it on my website and claim that I made the album and attempt to sell it as my own (as much as I wish I was Simon LeBon).

This isn't an issue of piracy -- it's an issue of plagiarism, which is quite different in my opinion.

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#177

Post by shad0wfax »

jakejake wrote: post #173

This is an honest question, I'd be curious to hear how you might differentiate this from music and movie sharing? I hope that people won't just down-vote me without responding. I am truly curious because I myself have mixed feelings about all of these issues as both a content creator as well as a consumer. It's hard for me to understand why certain types of art must be free for all, but others are defended vigorously…

I am not sure if people here acknowledge stealing/pirating movies/music as an acceptable act. What we want is for the movies that we genuinely purchase (be it as a DVD or a direct download), to be more accessible and available on different platforms. Or we want services that make these resources free and yet make a profit to the creators (youtube/pandora). I believe that something I have already paid for should not be constrained to a device/platform and so will find ways to make it more shareable between devices/platform. I differ with the draconian laws used by the movie industry.

The thin line that separates the two things you are trying to compare is: In the case of movie/video sharing we are a customer (hopefully) of a service that is sold (music/movie) whereas in the case of copying a website, neither is the website selling their design nor is it in public domain for use.

I think it is ok to be inspired and create a "similar" design, but to plagiarize, is probably as pathtetic as it can get.

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#178

Post by jakejake »

stevenp wrote: post #176
jakejake wrote: post #173

This is an honest question, I'd be curious to hear how you might differentiate this from music and movie sharing? I hope that people won't just down-vote me without responding. I am truly curious because I myself have mixed feelings about all of these issues as both a content creator as well as a consumer. It's hard for me to understand why certain types of art must be free for all, but others are defended vigorously…

There's a difference between downloading music (albeit illegally) and taking someone else's work and trying to pass it off as your own. When I download a Duran Duran album, I don't post it on my website and claim that I made the album and attempt to sell it as my own (as much as I wish I was Simon LeBon). This isn't an issue of piracy -- it's an issue of plagiarism, which is quite different in my opinion.

I think that is a pretty good point, the matter of taking credit for the work.

How about using copyrighted music in your own YouTube video or something like that? If you give credit does that make a difference?

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#179

Post by jakejake »

stevenp wrote: post #176
jakejake wrote: post #173

This is an honest question, I'd be curious to hear how you might differentiate this from music and movie sharing? I hope that people won't just down-vote me without responding. I am truly curious because I myself have mixed feelings about all of these issues as both a content creator as well as a consumer. It's hard for me to understand why certain types of art must be free for all, but others are defended vigorously…

There's a difference between downloading music (albeit illegally) and taking someone else's work and trying to pass it off as your own. When I download a Duran Duran album, I don't post it on my website and claim that I made the album and attempt to sell it as my own (as much as I wish I was Simon LeBon). This isn't an issue of piracy -- it's an issue of plagiarism, which is quite different in my opinion.

Or, if curebit had put a credit at the bottom "design based on 37signals" would that have made a difference?

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#180

Post by tim_h »

west1737 wrote: post #88
ceejayoz wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The images had explicit height/width set (and were small) so any damage from this would've been pretty limited.

True, but changing the little checks to little middle finger bullets would have been a much more elegant method of retaliation.

What if Curebit had an important demo/presentation that was botched as a result of this? I think the response should be tailored to provide them with a learning opportunity rather than to hurt their startup. A private naming/shaming like betageek suggested would probably do the trick.
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