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DNA, AI facial reconstruction, and grit identified Somerton Man 75 years later

spectrum.ieee.org

11–20 of 34 posts

Re: DNA, AI facial reconstruction, and grit identified Somerton Man 75 years later

#11
post #10

> Note that SNPs have around 50 to 150 base pairs of nucleotides What does this mean? SNPs being, by definition, single nucleotide polymorphisms, how does the author jump from 1bp to 50-150bp? Or is he referring to the surrounding DNA region?

“Single” in this case refers to the polymorphism not the segment length.

Re: DNA, AI facial reconstruction, and grit identified Somerton Man 75 years later

#12

The article mentioned 'elliptical suicide note' what did they mean by that? It's not a code? Just random letters?

The scrap of paper they found in his pocket which had a scrap of paper with words equivilant to “The End” in a foreign language, ripped out of the last page of a book.

Re: DNA, AI facial reconstruction, and grit identified Somerton Man 75 years later

#13

The article mentioned 'elliptical suicide note' what did they mean by that? It's not a code? Just random letters?

I think they mean the scrap of paper torn out of the book:

> In 1949, a pathologist had found a bit of paper concealed in one of the dead man’s pockets, and on it were printed the words Tamám Shud, the Persian for “finished.”

Re: DNA, AI facial reconstruction, and grit identified Somerton Man 75 years later

#15
I grew up decades ago hearing about the Somerton Man from my father, who read books on the subject and was fascinated by it. “Somerton Man was a murdered spy” was a popular theory for quite some time and entire books were written on the subject. My father is now long gone, but I wish he was alive to learn about the mystery being solved.

Re: DNA, AI facial reconstruction, and grit identified Somerton Man 75 years later

#16
post #10

> Note that SNPs have around 50 to 150 base pairs of nucleotides What does this mean? SNPs being, by definition, single nucleotide polymorphisms, how does the author jump from 1bp to 50-150bp? Or is he referring to the surrounding DNA region?

“Single” in this case refers to the polymorphism not the segment length.

Could you elaborate on this? Are you claiming that SNPs do not generally refer to only one nucleotide?

Re: DNA, AI facial reconstruction, and grit identified Somerton Man 75 years later

#17

I loved reading this. A nice short but true mystery solving story. But the epilogue about how being an electronics engineer gave them a bit of a unique edge feels like a self-serving stretch. The techniques in the story seem accessible to any reasonably well-learned individual if they’re motivated enough to sleuth. All the advanced work was done by other people. And there’s a tinge of the classic, “the established di…

I think you're misrepresenting the text a bit. It says:

> What’s interesting about solving such a case is how it relies on concepts that may seem counterintuitive to forensic biologists but are quite straightforward to an electronics engineer.

They're only claiming it's "counterintuitive" to biologists trained in other methods.

Re: DNA, AI facial reconstruction, and grit identified Somerton Man 75 years later

#18
post #17

I loved reading this. A nice short but true mystery solving story. But the epilogue about how being an electronics engineer gave them a bit of a unique edge feels like a self-serving stretch. The techniques in the story seem accessible to any reasonably well-learned individual if they’re motivated enough to sleuth. All the advanced work was done by other people. And there’s a tinge of the classic, “the established di…

I think you're misrepresenting the text a bit. It says: > What’s interesting about solving such a case is how it relies on concepts that may seem counterintuitive to forensic biologists but are quite straightforward to an electronics engineer. They're only claiming it's "counterintuitive" to biologists trained in other methods.

Imputation is a fairly common technique that would be familiar to most molecular or computational geneticists, especially those used to working with poor samples. There are software packages to assist in the calculation.

Re: DNA, AI facial reconstruction, and grit identified Somerton Man 75 years later

#19
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're misrepresenting the text a bit. It says: > What’s interesting about solving such a case is how it relies on concepts that may seem counterintuitive to forensic biologists but are quite straightforward to an electronics engineer. They're only claiming it's "counterintuitive" to biologists trained in other methods.

Imputation is a fairly common technique that would be familiar to most molecular or computational geneticists, especially those used to working with poor samples. There are software packages to assist in the calculation.

The point is imputation is used regularly in genetics, just not on forensics. And for good reasons. This case is old enough to be a curiosity, an amusing reading. But 70 years ago it was a potential murder case.

Imagine a forensinc lab using imputation to identify some samples and arresting someone based on them. It takes only a slighly interested lawyer to destroy that evidence at trial, saying that imputation is, literally, making up a good amount of data. In fact, defendant lawyers put a lot of effort in invalidating evidence, and imputation is quite easy to attack.

This case is a good sample to build upon it, to try to introduce imputation as a victim identification. But forensics move slowly.

Re: DNA, AI facial reconstruction, and grit identified Somerton Man 75 years later

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Single” in this case refers to the polymorphism not the segment length.

Could you elaborate on this? Are you claiming that SNPs do not generally refer to only one nucleotide?

According to wikipedia [1] it is a single nucleotide (or rather a single base pair). But you obviously need more base pairs to identify which base pair you are looking at in the DNA. Presumably 50-150 base pairs is the length of DNA fragments required to be able to identify where in the genome it is.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-nucleotide_polymorphism

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