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YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

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Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#141

Post by clark-kent »

jasonlotito wrote: post #73

I thought we'd already concluded that copyright infringement is not stealing. Neither is linking. Fair use is fine. And that ideas can't be stolen. So, is Curebit wrong because 37Signals is one of us? I'm not suggesting what Curebit did is right. But I doubt any HN user of any length of time can ignore the similarities with other copyright cases where the community here is opposed to the "37Signals" side. I'll have t…

What Curebit did was more like, taking the new Mission Impossible movie by Paramount Pictures, renaming it and changing the credits. Then releasing it as their original production.

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#142

Post by jasonlotito »

eropple wrote: post #119
jasonlotito wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An honest question (and thank you for not using the term stealing!=)), but you listed 4 reasons. Just curious about where it crosses the line for you. If someone does A, is it still a grey area? Is it because of B? C? D? Personally, I see it as A. B, C, and D merely exasperate the situation, but without A, B, C, and D aren't an issue. Of course, the follow up is if it's because of B, C, and D that it isn't in a grey…

You don't think hotlinking images and CSS is stealing bandwidth?

Technically, no. They are linking to an image on another server. It's akin to me linking to someones article. In one case, the visitors browser automatically fetches the image. In the other, the visitors browser fetches it at the users request.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not defending the action. But no, it's not stealing. Defining it as such is just as wrong as defining copyright infringement as stealing.

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#143

Post by sofuture »

ceol wrote: post #52
derwildemomo wrote: post #10

I'm sorry, but am I the only one wondering about the ... tone of dhh's response? I mean, "fucking scumbags", is he like 14? He has every right to be upset, but the choice of words are in no way helpful. just saying..

DHH is well-known for being... crude , for lack of a nicer word. He's a guy who revels in the fact that he's arrogant.

Why do we tolerate this behavior from people in our 'community' (or anyone really)? It's comically childish and infuriating to see it get a pass because 'oh, that's just their thing'.

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#144

Post by aaronblohowiak »

dave_sullivan wrote: post #121
sixQuarks wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like you photoshopped your face onto someone else's body.

You're half right. Although this will make me sound like an absolute narcissist, I needed a haircut when I took the pic, so I photoshopped my twitter pic onto my own body rather than get a haircut and retake a bunch of pictures.

The left side of your chin's shading is too drastically different from your neck, which messes with the perception of a light source, causing

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#145

Post by jasonlotito »

nl wrote: post #129
jasonlotito wrote: post #73

I thought we'd already concluded that copyright infringement is not stealing. Neither is linking. Fair use is fine. And that ideas can't be stolen. So, is Curebit wrong because 37Signals is one of us? I'm not suggesting what Curebit did is right. But I doubt any HN user of any length of time can ignore the similarities with other copyright cases where the community here is opposed to the "37Signals" side. I'll have t…

Who concluded that copyright infringement is not stealing? Opposition to SOPA etc does not necessarily mean people don't believe in copyright. There is a very broad range of views on that particular question.

> Who concluded that copyright infringement is not stealing?

You've got that question backwards. Whose concluded that copyright infringement is stealing?

> Opposition to SOPA etc does not necessarily mean people don't believe in copyright.

That has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. You clearly don't understand what I'm saying. I oppose SOPA and absolutely support copyright. And that doesn't contradict anything I've said.

> There is a very broad range of views on that particular question.

Broad range? I figure there are 2 views: those that want frame copyright infringement as stealing, and those that understand the difference.

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#146

Post by jaekwon »

gizmo wrote: post #137
jaekwon wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only gray from your system. There are other systems that people live (and think) in, regardless of what the law (and "common sense") says. If you consider that (a) the act of ctrl-c/ctrl-v is fine for any material, (b) hosting content on your domain does not imply that you pass off the inspiration of the work as your own, (c) everybody already copies under the radar for profit to some extent, then (d) becomes an…

I meant that it isn't a gray area, that it isn't a moral dilemma for me, but something that is overwhelmingly slanted one way. I don't consider it a moral absolute, and it's easy to imagine a society superior to ours where copying is considered OK. I think this is completely different from the Kopimi philosophy, which argues that the rights of others to enjoy existing work (e.g. music, movies, art) outweigh the right…

I see what I said as corollary, rather than representing Kopimi.

What you say about (b) only follows from current social norms, which can change and I believe will change over time. I understand what you mean about attribution, but it is also difficult to give attribution to certain copyrighted works in today's climate without admitting "guilt".

As per (c), have you ever run Firebug against Facebook's site to see how they do things? If you haven't, you're missing out. :)

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#147

Post by aaronblohowiak »

sofuture wrote: post #143
ceol wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DHH is well-known for being... crude , for lack of a nicer word. He's a guy who revels in the fact that he's arrogant.

Why do we tolerate this behavior from people in our 'community' (or anyone really)? It's comically childish and infuriating to see it get a pass because 'oh, that's just their thing'.

We have no leverage AND intolerance is the only thing that is socially acceptable to correct.

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#148

Post by jasonlotito »

jsavimbi wrote: post #106
jasonlotito wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or maybe I just choose to ignore your pathetic misdirection and call things as I see them, I'm sorry. Maybe you could point to me where 37Signals no longer has what was stolen? I also applaud your open commitment in support of redefining copyright infringement as thievery. Let me know how that works out for you. Finally, you should avoid baseless insults. It makes you appear stupid and detracts from what you are at…

Ok, I'm the stupid one. Please point out where I insulted you do I can give you credit and retract my claims.

> ignore your pathetic misdirection

You say that. It's fairly rude. You can disagree with me, but trying to belittle my argument with insults is rude. I don't think my original comment went over the line at any point to warrant such a reaction. Be honest, your comment from the first word, was fairly facetious.

Disagree with me, but do so on the merits of intelligence, not insults.

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#149

Post by jasonlotito »

jsavimbi wrote: post #118
jsavimbi wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, I'm the stupid one. Please point out where I insulted you do I can give you credit and retract my claims.

Unfortunately, according to the Curebit apology blog, they do in fact admit to stealing, or as they word it: ripping off. Imagine that. Case closed. No need for lawyering, they know what they did and they know it's wrong.

It doesn't making it stealing. Poor word choice is poor word choice.

> No need for lawyering.

No, there is every need to be accurate. Maybe you aren't aware of how long the fight has been going on, but the use of the term pirate and stealing isn't a new thing. Allowing it's use frames the argument in a light that isn't accurate.

Words have power.

Don't agree with me? A criminal like you would.

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#150

Post by cgoddard »

jphackworth wrote: post #34
yangez wrote: post #5

At what point does inspiration become imitation? Clearly Curebit stepped over the line in this case, but it's undeniable that lots of startups draw design inspiration from other companies. But at what point does this become unacceptable? For example, if Curebit merely used the same design, except hosting the assets on their own server, would that be okay? What if they just copied the layout but used their own styles,…

At what point does this become unacceptable? Look at what Zynga did with FarmVille. At first, it was exactly like FarmTown. Same appearance, same menu layout, same gameplay. They weren't actually serving assets from FarmTown's servers, but besides that, the design was exactly the same. Was this illegal? Probably not - design like this generally can't be copyrighted. Was this successful? Yes - this sort of strategy le…

Not only did Curebit copy 37Signals design in this case, they also essentially copied the source code. If Zynga was somehow able to decompile another game's source code, change the assets, and then sell it as their own, it would be just as wrong and potentially illegal as what Curebit did.
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