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The End of Front-End Development

joshwcomeau.com

81–90 of 111 posts

Re: The End of Front-End Development

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And things like Tailwind/CSS-in-JS are quickly making traditional CSS skills obsolete This statement literally makes no sense.

Indeed, I'm not sure how people can use Tailwind or Css-in-JS without, well, knowing CSS. It's literally CSS as another DSL.

Point being that traditional stylesheet based CSS is all but obsolete now. Any dev can pick one of ten thousand component libraries, slap a few utility classes on the element, and call it good enough.

Re: The End of Front-End Development

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, I'm not sure how people can use Tailwind or Css-in-JS without, well, knowing CSS. It's literally CSS as another DSL.

Point being that traditional stylesheet based CSS is all but obsolete now. Any dev can pick one of ten thousand component libraries, slap a few utility classes on the element, and call it good enough.

Not when you're working at a company that wants a specific design. Tailwind and CSS-in-JS have their own issues.

Re: The End of Front-End Development

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LLMs not existing isn't the reason we don't have UBI or free healthcare, or stipends to pursue passions. I think most people are understandably concerned that the benefits of these new tools will primarily accrue to the tiny elite who can afford to control the compute resources and therefor mediate access to the models. If LLM replaces a bunch of $DAYJOB you won't have people learning violin, you'll have widespread u…

You won't pull yourself up by your bootstraps with that attitude! You can learn to play the violin and be homeless( Typical slacker complaining instead of just being willing to multitask).

seriously?

Re: The End of Front-End Development

#84

I see posts like this comparing past attempts, and in this article even 1990s Homestead, and I immediately think this person does not get it. Additionally all the statements that follow along the lines of "GPT today has a hard time with xyz" are all problematic too. Today is not tomorrow, and what it can do tomorrow is what we should be talking about. The fact is in just 3 months we've gone from fairly basic code rev…

> This is wildly different technology. Talking about what GPT can do today and landing at "it's not good enough" is also missing the point, we are nowhere near the limits of this tech and it's evolving so fast that these assessments are not insightful in the slightest.

Just as often with AI's detractors who claim that it "merely" predicts the next word, I have to wonder if those making these grandiose claims about the near future of AI have actually used GPT-4 and its predecessors in their work. There has to be some sort of logical fallacy regarding "well [insert literally any limitation here] won't exist in GPT(n+1) at this rate."

> Jobs are going to be lost, it's a fact.

What percentage of a programmers' time have compilers automated? It's gotta be multiple orders of magnitude of efficiency gained. I could see a GPT-4 based GitHub Copilot being something like a 3-5x improvement on development in the best use cases (e.g. CRUD development built on public frameworks.) That's a colossal impact, but it's hard to even put on the scale to other ways programmers have automated their work in the past. Every time programming has automated giant swaths of programmer time, the end result has been that programmers can generate far more economic value even faster. This end result has consistently (and paradoxically) led to far more work and jobs for developers than before.

> Even if it's just that junior who was learning code reviews and supporting basic development, that job will be around for maybe a year or two at the rate we are moving.

At least in my admittedly niche area of work, juniors just aren't all that helpful. The time they take away from seniors or other members of the team makes them at net negative for at least a few months. It's often a year or more before we reach break even. Junior positions are investments in potential future independent contributors at a time where filling IC roles is still extremely difficult.

Re: The End of Front-End Development

#85
post #52

It's not that AI is going to replace certain jobs, it's that the people /not using AI/ will be out of a job because GPT et al are merely tools to get things done faster.

I have witnessed developers who are shockingly inefficient at getting work done quickly, but they get it done at the pace everyone's come to expect so it's never an issue.

Obviously this doesn't apply to all workplaces, but there are a ton where the slowest workers set the bar for how fast things get done, and anyone who can get stuff done quicker works a couple total hours per week and is dicking around or in meetings the rest of the time.

Re: The End of Front-End Development

#86
It’s not the “it’ll build websites” part that worries me, it’s the “it’ll browse the web for people” part.

When it starts doing that the relevancy of interactivity and design on the web starts plummeting as less and less humans will use it.

Re: The End of Front-End Development

#87
post #30

90% of frontend development is gathering the requirements. The other 90% is trying to get CSS to center a div.

There are still days when I wish for a time machine to 20 years ago and table-based layout.

Yes, it was semantically ugly but it %(#% worked every #%#% time.

Re: The End of Front-End Development

#88
post #30

90% of frontend development is gathering the requirements. The other 90% is trying to get CSS to center a div.

This was (sort of) funny 5-7 years ago. Meta: Stuff like this doesn’t really fit in HN imho. Besides being low effort it just feels weird to read things like this on a site literally called hacker news . I feel like someone misspelled “tired techies complaining about the same thing over and over again”. Is it that much harder to come up with a genuinely funny or constructive answer or, you know, go outside, and touch…

Does that really hold water when some days half the front page is reposts from years ago? Hardly "news" either

Re: The End of Front-End Development

#89

Frontend seems to involve visual design, which backend obviously doesn't (usually). Other than that, I don't see the difference, as soon as you're working on things more complex than simple static pages. Both will gradually become more efficiently done through smart use of AI tech. But replacement? ChatGPT and GPT4 can't solve real world problems without heavy time investment of an engineer to prompt-engineer a semi-…

> Frontend seems to involve visual design, which backend obviously doesn't (usually). Other than that, I don't see the difference

My thought, from a long career or full-stack development, is that front-end is very much about how people interact with things. It's more a matter of doing a thing with strong attention to the details of the display, interactions, and behaviors in different environments.

Back-end development is more about how machines interact with each other. Things are more deterministic, but instead of scrutinizing minutae of human-machine interaction, I'm thinking about how a machine will do this hundreds or thousands of times per second.

Re: The End of Front-End Development

#90

Frontend seems to involve visual design, which backend obviously doesn't (usually). Other than that, I don't see the difference, as soon as you're working on things more complex than simple static pages. Both will gradually become more efficiently done through smart use of AI tech. But replacement? ChatGPT and GPT4 can't solve real world problems without heavy time investment of an engineer to prompt-engineer a semi-…

There are a variety of differences. Frontend development involves a large number of fuzzy human bits that are constantly moving underneath you. Yes, your backend dependencies can change and you may need to update an API version, but in frontend you have browsers, screen readers, frameworks, and all sorts of massive icebergs largely outside of your control constantly moving. In the backend, you probably have a languag…

Brilliant, sounds even less automatable than what I assumed.
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