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YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

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Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#101

Post by dave_sullivan »

This is clearly an egregious case of design theft, particularly considering the fact that they're actually linking to assets off the Highrise site. But at the risk of opening myself up to an absolute shit hurricane, I'm curious where my site would fall on the Highrise design theft scale: http://www.powerplayforsalesforce.com.

Personally I think it's fine, but it's also obvious that I read 37signals' post a while back re: their a/b testing and thought to myself: Hey, that's a great idea! Instead of doing a long form like everyone else, let's blow up a picture of a guy (me) on the left, put a video in the middle, and put some bullet points to the right with a signup button on bottom. Short and to the point, and incidentally, a technique that's been in use by print advertising since the beginning of print advertising.

So where exactly is the line? (and I'm asking because I'm truly curious if I've crossed it) 3 bullet points about your product is nothing new. The smiling guy you can relate to with a testimonial isn't new. Some screenshots or a product video above the fold isn't new. But I certainly wouldn't give myself a ton of credit for originality in landing page design. I guess I could put the guy on the right and bullet points to the left. I could move the signup bottom. I could have more content in my footer. How do you take the general concept and produce something that doesn't look like something of a rip off?

Personally, I have a lot of respect for what 37Signals has achieved over the years. So while I certainly want to learn from their mistakes and successes, I certainly don't want to be accused of being a scumbag design thief. Any thoughts?

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#102

Post by reledi »

citricsquid wrote: post #11
chrisacky wrote: post #6

Is this really such a big deal? We are all only where we are today based on building on the improvements of others. This isn't exactly like Zynga copying other small studios games, it's just a bit of design rip off, which incidentally, I'm not a designer, but if I see something that I think looks good on another site, I'm happy to copy the css styles for it. I've often thought if I'm just kidding myself, and what I'm…

For me personally I found his attitude towards the entire thing the real problem. He asked if crediting the original creators was enough, he then hid behind all manner of silly startup buzzwords ("a/b testing", "ghetto test", "lean startup") and didn't seem to understand it was wrong. His tweets after the fact were worrying too, especially when others uncovered that they had other products that took designs from else…

Allan did have some silly responses. Either he was panicking and couldn't think clearly (he does have a lot on the line) or he genuinely doesn't understand what the problem is. On the other hand, I think David is overreacting and trying to get as much attention as possible -- seems a bit childish.

If I was in David's shoes, I'd be shocked to see how much they directly copied and simply ask them to take it down, and possibly notify their investors. I'd also be proud that they used my design.

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#103

Post by bandushrew »

chrisacky wrote: post #6

Is this really such a big deal? We are all only where we are today based on building on the improvements of others. This isn't exactly like Zynga copying other small studios games, it's just a bit of design rip off, which incidentally, I'm not a designer, but if I see something that I think looks good on another site, I'm happy to copy the css styles for it. I've often thought if I'm just kidding myself, and what I'm…

"I'm happy to copy the css styles for it." vs " I've still coded everything myself."

No, you haven't.

Seeing a website look that you like and emulating it by creating a blackbox version of it is fine, seeing a website look that you like and grabbing the css styling for it is breaching copyright. Its also ridiculously lazy in a bad way, getting someone else's css to work with your html is going to be way more painful than simply writing your own. Unless you also copy the html for it?

Seriously. As a professional you do not get to take other people's work without their permission. As a civilian you can do what you like, but if you want people to think of you as a professional, you need to act professionally.

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#104

Post by getsat »

kristenlee wrote: post #68

They even copied the pricing page verbatim, I have personally incorporated some 37signals design elements in my own websites but nothing to this extent. 37signals is a bit hypocritical in my opinion because they brag about their design practices and then whine when someone copies it, either you're an open company sharing your inner-workings with the world or you're not, they can't have it both ways. http://www.curebi…

Wow, they even copied a lot of the CSS ids/class names.

> 37signals is a bit hypocritical

There's a difference between leveraging the lessons learned/data gathered from a particular design and copying the design itself nearly verbatim. A big one.

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#105

Post by inovica »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #26

I saw this play out yesterday in the comments and kept thiking "why won't someone stop him from posting?!" It was getting bigger and bigger the more he opened his mouth. I learned an important lesson a few years ago: sometimes you can't make something better, and trying to make it better only makes it worse. Stop, regroup with others and get a proper plan together.

I fully agree. Sometimes saying nothing is better. I don't mean forever, but think about it, sleep on it, but don't just 'react'.

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#106

Post by jsavimbi »

jasonlotito wrote: post #79
jsavimbi wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My apologies, I did not realize that they either received permission from or licensed design, code and image hosting from 37signals. Or maybe I just choose to ignore your pathetic misdirection and call things as I see them, which couldn't be more obvious to the eye. Because that's what a retraction of the work and the (forced) composition of a public apology are all about.

> Or maybe I just choose to ignore your pathetic misdirection and call things as I see them, I'm sorry. Maybe you could point to me where 37Signals no longer has what was stolen? I also applaud your open commitment in support of redefining copyright infringement as thievery. Let me know how that works out for you. Finally, you should avoid baseless insults. It makes you appear stupid and detracts from what you are at…

Ok, I'm the stupid one. Please point out where I insulted you do I can give you credit and retract my claims.

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#107

Post by ryanwaggoner »

jasonlotito wrote: post #79
jsavimbi wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My apologies, I did not realize that they either received permission from or licensed design, code and image hosting from 37signals. Or maybe I just choose to ignore your pathetic misdirection and call things as I see them, which couldn't be more obvious to the eye. Because that's what a retraction of the work and the (forced) composition of a public apology are all about.

> Or maybe I just choose to ignore your pathetic misdirection and call things as I see them, I'm sorry. Maybe you could point to me where 37Signals no longer has what was stolen? I also applaud your open commitment in support of redefining copyright infringement as thievery. Let me know how that works out for you. Finally, you should avoid baseless insults. It makes you appear stupid and detracts from what you are at…

Semantics over whether copying their code and images constitutes "theft" or "stealing", it's pretty obvious that using images hosted from their server is a type of theft of resources. Granted, the amount of resources in this case is likely a small fraction of a cent, but still.

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#108

Post by ryanwaggoner »

sachingulaya wrote: post #93

A lot of people here are only referring to them ripping off 37signals' design. They ripped more than that. http://yfrog.com/oejp7cp Curebit vs. Kinoma Sharebooster's logo is stolen directly from LaunchBit: http://yfrog.com/odx67yoj No one can defend the theft of a logo.

To be fair, perhaps both of those companies used purchased themes or artwork from something like themeforest as a starting point.

But this definitely looks bad, particularly in light of the 37signals dustup.

EDIT: Looks that way for the rocket ship at least: http://www.bigstockphoto.com/image-5418738/stock-vector-retr...

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#109

Post by salvadors »

jasonlotito wrote: post #79
jsavimbi wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My apologies, I did not realize that they either received permission from or licensed design, code and image hosting from 37signals. Or maybe I just choose to ignore your pathetic misdirection and call things as I see them, which couldn't be more obvious to the eye. Because that's what a retraction of the work and the (forced) composition of a public apology are all about.

> Or maybe I just choose to ignore your pathetic misdirection and call things as I see them, I'm sorry. Maybe you could point to me where 37Signals no longer has what was stolen? I also applaud your open commitment in support of redefining copyright infringement as thievery. Let me know how that works out for you. Finally, you should avoid baseless insults. It makes you appear stupid and detracts from what you are at…

> Maybe you could point to me where 37Signals no longer has what was stolen?

I'm in full agreement that copyright infringement is not theft.

However, I think this part of the argument is weaker. Things can have value through scarcity, and even more so through uniqueness. To copy something, in such cases, can lead to a reduction in value of the original. If what you had was "the only in the world" someone copying it takes that away from you without ever taking the item away.

Whether that's true in this specific case, is a somewhat different argument, of course.

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