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Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

forbes.com

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Re: Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

#351

Post by jonahrd »

mellosouls wrote: post #281
raphaelj wrote: post #36

Somewhat unrelated to the article, but I live in a mid-size EU city and dumped my car for an e-bike a few months ago. Surprisingly, it hasn't been that hard (my GF kept her car, and I have a car-sharing subscription): Pros: - Immediately stopped having insomnia. Better feel overall; - about €300/month in additional disposable income. That's basically a free lunch everyday! - significantly faster if parking is taken i…

significantly faster if parking is taken into account for most trips This sounds unlikely for the average cycling commuter if parking alone is making the difference- cyclists (as motorcyclists) need to change (at each side) and shower etc; I think that is often forgotten in these calculations.

I could probably count the number of times I've changed or showered after cycling on one hand, and cycling has been my main mode of transit for 10 years.

When your trip is like 3km you don't even have time to work up a sweat, especially if you're limited to just going at the speed of traffic. (Yes, on my own I could probably ride faster, but I'm limited by car/infrastructure speed)

Re: Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

#352

Post by koonsolo »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #321
koonsolo wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some time ago I was surprised how fast these e-bikes are compared to my motorcycle. In Belgium we have plenty of roads where bikes can go but not cars & motorcycles. One morning I overtook a colleague on an e-bike (max 45km/h) with my motorcycle. A few streets later I overtook him again, since he took a shortcut that I was not allowed to take. A bit later I overtook him again, since I had a red light and he again too…

Are you sure your friend was actually allowed to take that shortcut with an e-bike going 45 km/h? AFAIK, these are considered "light motorbikes" (or something) and require the same paperwork (aside from an "easier" license) and gear as regular motorbikes. More importantly, they are specifically not bikes and aren't allowed to ride on bike lanes any more than a fat liter+ bike is.

You are correct, but for those shortcuts it was allowed.

There is however a grey zone when going on bicycle lanes next to the rivers, because you can go max 30km/h there. But when nobody is there, I'm sure most e-bikes just go max speed.

Re: Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

#353

Post by em500 »

Rendello wrote: post #218
matsemann wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - might be impossible depending on work or children; The newer style of cargo bikes can for many families replace a car. Have two kids seated in the trunk of the bike and drop them off at kindergarten, then continue biking to work and pick them up on the way home. Those are a bit on the pricier side, though. Still cheap compared to a car, but people often look at them as something "extravagant" or "in addition" to…

I had my mind blown about Dutch-style cargo ebikes, bakfietsen . The cool thing is that you can use the bikes to haul cargo, or put three kids in the front in special harnesses when you need to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQhzEnWCgHA

Most Dutch parents don't bother with harnesses in cargo bikes. Or with helmets on normal bikes.

Re: Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

#354

Post by margorczynski »

garte wrote: post #322
margorczynski wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. But that doesn't change the fact that given current reality the safety of moving in a car is higher than when using a bike. How it could and should be is a different matter.

This thinking seems self-defeating to me and only serves to uphold the status quo or - sadly - make things worse.

How is looking at reality and making choices that based on that analysis are best for the safety of you and your family self-defeating? You're putting activism into the mix and if you're willing to put more risk on yourself and/or your family to prove a point then it is your choice to do so.

Re: Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

#355

Post by loeg »

matsemann wrote: post #118
raphaelj wrote: post #36

Somewhat unrelated to the article, but I live in a mid-size EU city and dumped my car for an e-bike a few months ago. Surprisingly, it hasn't been that hard (my GF kept her car, and I have a car-sharing subscription): Pros: - Immediately stopped having insomnia. Better feel overall; - about €300/month in additional disposable income. That's basically a free lunch everyday! - significantly faster if parking is taken i…

> - might be impossible depending on work or children; The newer style of cargo bikes can for many families replace a car. Have two kids seated in the trunk of the bike and drop them off at kindergarten, then continue biking to work and pick them up on the way home. Those are a bit on the pricier side, though. Still cheap compared to a car, but people often look at them as something "extravagant" or "in addition" to…

Unfortunately the big front-loaded cargo bikes are, well, big. Almost as long as a car, if not as wide. You need to park them somewhere and they're definitely too big and heavy to carry up any stairs. They're also expensive, like mid 4 figures USD. This starts to look like a similar problem to car ownership and parking. (I say this all as an avid cyclist -- my household has four bikes and one car.) Rentals seem like a good fit for some users so I'm happy to see someone trying it as a business model.

Re: Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

#356

Post by yourusername »

yurishimo wrote: post #254
yourusername wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be easy to say but that's not a common Dutch saying at all. It's a bastardised version of a Swedish/Norwegian saying.

Je bent niet van suiker...

Different meaning. More like "this sucks but you'll live".

Re: Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

#357

Post by 0xcde4c3db »

chriswarbo wrote: post #295
Eric_WVGG wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anyone non-UK types are interested in this weird entity — technically dates back to Roman days, and predates the United Kingdom by hundreds of years — this podcast episode is quite funny and informative. Just an example of what a weird anomalous zone it is: the King (or Queen) of England is not legally allowed to enter without explicit permission from the mayor — not the mayor of London, the Lord Mayor of this squ…

> It's like if Wall Street could tell the President of the US to take a hike An alternative take: If it turns out, by some legislative fluke, that a particular square mile of the US is not bound by all of its laws, it won't be long until Wall St companies start moving their headquarters!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_of_Death_(Yellowstone)

Re: Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

#358

Post by loeg »

alkjsdlkjasd wrote: post #190
nonethewiser wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The damage is a function of mass and speed. Obviously walking < e-bike << car

To quickly do the calculations: Walking: 5 km/h * 70kg = 97 kgm/s e-bike: 20 km/h * 90 kg = 500 kgm/s car: 50 km/h * 2000kg = 28,000 kgm/s

Energy is proportionate to the square of velocity. So it's:

Walking: 5 km/h * 70kg => 875 (although this is a very slow estimate for a walker) (please ignore the non-canonical units)

e-bike: 20 km/h * 90 kg => 18,000 (I think your estimate for ebike mass might be on the low side at 20kg, but whatever)

car: 50 km/h * 2000kg => 2,500,000 (and that's a fairly low speed for cars! Drunk drivers often drive faster than is wise.)

Everything else is a rounding error compared to the energy of a car.

Re: Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

#359

Post by noelwelsh »

slothtrop wrote: post #270
matsemann wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - might be impossible depending on work or children; The newer style of cargo bikes can for many families replace a car. Have two kids seated in the trunk of the bike and drop them off at kindergarten, then continue biking to work and pick them up on the way home. Those are a bit on the pricier side, though. Still cheap compared to a car, but people often look at them as something "extravagant" or "in addition" to…

Can't understate the temporal dimension to owning a car. When dropping and picking up a kid at daycare, you want to move fast, if you work for a living.

Eh. For all my kids' daycare career I dropped them off by bike. Given the distance and route it was faster than driving. It really depends on the distances involved, road layout, cycling infrastructure, geography, weather, etc... Not many universals here.

Re: Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

#360

Post by ignormies »

dukeofdoom wrote: post #194
sunbum wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you sit in a car as well

Not quite the same. The problem with a bike seat is the bike seat cuts off circulation in point where a lot of blood vessels pass through, riding has been linked to cancer. Along with the more common city riding hazards like car passangers opening doors, falling over and you breaking bones, getting run over, or even directly breathing in exhaust fumes from trucks.

> the bike seat cuts off circulation in point where a lot of blood vessels pass through, riding has been linked to cancer

Even if this is true (I'm skeptical without seeing a source), you're more than free to mount whatever style of seat you want on your bike. No one's stopping you.

> Along with the more common city riding hazards like car passangers opening doors, falling over and you breaking bones, getting run over, or even directly breathing in exhaust fumes from trucks.

Great point. Those are all excellent reasons for further reducing the numbers of cars on our streets in lieu of bikes and walking.

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