Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London • Hacker News Board

Re: Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

#201

Post by mikrl » Mon, Mar 20, 2023, 2:44 PM UTC

raphaelj wrote: post #36

Somewhat unrelated to the article, but I live in a mid-size EU city and dumped my car for an e-bike a few months ago. Surprisingly, it hasn't been that hard (my GF kept her car, and I have a car-sharing subscription): Pros: - Immediately stopped having insomnia. Better feel overall; - about €300/month in additional disposable income. That's basically a free lunch everyday! - significantly faster if parking is taken i…

- if you ride after a night drinking

I was at my local bar here in Ontario and a gang of older fellows (boomer/Gen X) roll up on electric stand-up scooters.

Some drunk zoomers started laughing and giving them shit and flexing their trucks but they just ignored them, had their 3-4 beers and said they were going to which would have been at least 45 minutes to walk.

Re: Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

#202

Post by alkjsdlkjasd » Mon, Mar 20, 2023, 2:44 PM UTC

nonethewiser wrote: post #182

alkjsdlkjasd wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the safety risk just becomes too high to stomach Check out chart 2: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casua...

To share with everyone else, chart 2 shows 12x more fatalities per mile traveled for bikes compared to cars.

On the other hand, is shows that pedestrians and cyclists have the same rate of fatalities per mile traveled.

So better to not walk or cycle and just stick to your car /s

Re: Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

#203

Post by mikepurvis » Mon, Mar 20, 2023, 2:44 PM UTC

matsemann wrote: post #118

raphaelj wrote: post #36

Somewhat unrelated to the article, but I live in a mid-size EU city and dumped my car for an e-bike a few months ago. Surprisingly, it hasn't been that hard (my GF kept her car, and I have a car-sharing subscription): Pros: - Immediately stopped having insomnia. Better feel overall; - about €300/month in additional disposable income. That's basically a free lunch everyday! - significantly faster if parking is taken i…

> - might be impossible depending on work or children; The newer style of cargo bikes can for many families replace a car. Have two kids seated in the trunk of the bike and drop them off at kindergarten, then continue biking to work and pick them up on the way home. Those are a bit on the pricier side, though. Still cheap compared to a car, but people often look at them as something "extravagant" or "in addition" to…

As a parent myself who has always had a car but has aspired at times to go car-free, I think the whole "semi-frequent short term car rental" thing only really gets realistic when the kids are old enough to just need those tiny Mifold booster seats / seatbelt adjusters.

Conventional UAS-attached car seats are just too bulky and troublesome to be installing and uninstalling all the time in cars you only rent for a few hours at a time.

Re: Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

#204

Post by yourusername » Mon, Mar 20, 2023, 2:45 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #81

alkjsdlkjasd wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - weather might make the ride unpleasant; As the Dutch like to say: there is no such thing as bad cycling weather, only bad cycling clothes. I would strongly recommond a pair of water/wind proof trousers to go over your regular trousers, if you don't already have some. This has lead to a much more pleasant riding experience, especially in winter. They aren't very practical on a regular bike as they make you uncomfo…

>> As the Dutch like to say: there is no such thing as bad cycling weather, only bad cycling clothes. Easy to say in a country famously flat, small, and with a relatively narrow weather window. I welcome any Dutch person to attempt a 15+km commute during a rocky mountain winter. I know of driveways in US/Canada with more vertical than any Dutch commute.

It would be easy to say but that's not a common Dutch saying at all. It's a bastardised version of a Swedish/Norwegian saying.

Re: Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

#205

Post by trgn » Mon, Mar 20, 2023, 2:45 PM UTC

nonethewiser wrote: post #142

jerrre wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't most of you points also apply to drunk walking?

The damage is a function of mass and speed. Obviously walking < e-bike << car

I cannot believe this is getting downvoted. The reasons cars are inherently dangerous is 99% because they are heavy and fast. Everything we build around that (traffic rules, dedicated lanes, buffer spaces, ...) is purely to deal with this fundamental physical reality.

With great power comes great responsibility. Whether you take that perspective in Joules, Watts, Newtons, kg.m/s, the conclusions are roughly the same. Drivers needs to be hundreds of times more responsible than cyclists or walkers.

Re: Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

#206

Post by otherme123 » Mon, Mar 20, 2023, 2:45 PM UTC

toss1 wrote: post #149

fipar wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About not killing someone if you ride after drinking, Obviously it is ver difficult for a bike to directly kill someone other than the rider (as opposed to a car, where this is very easy), but a drunk cyclist can still hurt other people directly or indirectly (causing a bigger accident by forcing someone to avoid them). Even on a city free of private cars, you’d still share the road with pedestrians, other cyclists,…

Nice suggestion, but drunk-cycling is self-limiting in a way that drunk-cycling is not. Drunk-driving you are seated, and only need to be barely conscious. for drunk-cycling, you still must be sufficiently functional to balance on a bike, which puts a bit of a floor on the level of perceptual and cognitive function available, in addition to the far lower bike vs car ceiling on available momentum to do damage. Not rec…

True, I remember watching a guy "cycling" drunk, and he was just walking with a bike between his legs.

Re: Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

#207

Post by nicehill » Mon, Mar 20, 2023, 2:45 PM UTC

Xylakant wrote: post #94

meindnoch wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How often does it snow in the Netherlands?

Meet Oulu, the winter cycling capital of the world. https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2021/01/22/meet-the-bike-... https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/what-on-earth-winter-biking-...

Fascinating

How do Europeans keep ice off bike lanes? Salt?

Re: Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

#208

Post by seszett » Mon, Mar 20, 2023, 2:46 PM UTC

dabeeeenster wrote: post #89

TexanFeller wrote: post #51

I would celebrate if this happened naturally, but this seems more a case of if you punish driving enough you get less drivers. When I was in London over a decade ago they already had restrictions on car traffic into certain parts of the city and additional fees to go there. Tax on a new car is 20% and lots of regulations on their characteristics. Large taxes on petrol which is already much more expensive than in the…

"Tax on a new car is 20%" UK sales tax IS 20 for almost all goods! Why is this a reason? Can't think what other "regulations" there are in their characteristics other than emmissions?

That's an average VAT rate for Europe.

Re: Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

#209

Post by margorczynski » Mon, Mar 20, 2023, 2:46 PM UTC

orobinson wrote: post #91

mrpopo wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1 car/household is still entirely feasible with children (and the norm for many lower-class in Europe). We live with 1 child and no car and it's been working fine thus far. You have to be careful about where you live and work though, but I'd say the added quality of life of living car-free (in a car-free city) is all worth it.

I live in London. We have three kids, no car and an electric cargo bike which they can all fit in. It's brilliant and all we need for getting around London. I've also used it for picking up furniture and building materials - such a versatile vehicle and much more enjoyable to use than a car.

Aren't you wary that the bike doesn't offer almost any protection at all when an accident happens? Something that causes minor or no damage when inside a car can easily cause serious injury on even death when on a bike.

Re: Cyclists now outnumber motorists in City of London

#210

Post by trgn » Mon, Mar 20, 2023, 2:47 PM UTC

toss1 wrote: post #149

fipar wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About not killing someone if you ride after drinking, Obviously it is ver difficult for a bike to directly kill someone other than the rider (as opposed to a car, where this is very easy), but a drunk cyclist can still hurt other people directly or indirectly (causing a bigger accident by forcing someone to avoid them). Even on a city free of private cars, you’d still share the road with pedestrians, other cyclists,…

Nice suggestion, but drunk-cycling is self-limiting in a way that drunk-cycling is not. Drunk-driving you are seated, and only need to be barely conscious. for drunk-cycling, you still must be sufficiently functional to balance on a bike, which puts a bit of a floor on the level of perceptual and cognitive function available, in addition to the far lower bike vs car ceiling on available momentum to do damage. Not rec…

> which puts a bit of a floor on the level of perceptual and cognitive function available

Absolutely. I cannot believe people are actually equivocating on this. A drunk driver is hundreds of times more dangerous than a drunk cyclist, it's a categorical difference.