YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals • Hacker News Board

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#11

Post by citricsquid » Sat, Jan 28, 2012, 8:28 PM UTC

chrisacky wrote: post #6

Is this really such a big deal? We are all only where we are today based on building on the improvements of others. This isn't exactly like Zynga copying other small studios games, it's just a bit of design rip off, which incidentally, I'm not a designer, but if I see something that I think looks good on another site, I'm happy to copy the css styles for it. I've often thought if I'm just kidding myself, and what I'm…

For me personally I found his attitude towards the entire thing the real problem. He asked if crediting the original creators was enough, he then hid behind all manner of silly startup buzzwords ("a/b testing", "ghetto test", "lean startup") and didn't seem to understand it was wrong. His tweets after the fact were worrying too, especially when others uncovered that they had other products that took designs from elsewhere.

Shit happens and hopefully this doesn't damage curebits business long term, but Allan really needs to understand what he did wrong, he seems to think the problem was he didn't credit and it's perfectly okay to take someone elses work, pass it off as your own and then hide behind silly phrases. No matter what your business is or how old you are stealing is wrong.

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#12

Post by mindcrime » Sat, Jan 28, 2012, 8:29 PM UTC

waitwhat wrote: post #7

mindcrime wrote: post #4

We’re willing to file this story under “lean startup wankery,” folks. WTF? How does "lean startup" factor into this? That seems like an odd little digression there at the end of the article.

"No matter how many corners you cut and no matter how small your team is, you still have to spend time and money on development and design." The implication is that a slightly less lean startup would have had more design resources and wouldn't have done something so stupid.

OK, I guess I can see why somebody might have written that, especially after reading the other HN thread (which I had skipped before) and seeing the stuff about ghetto testing, etc.

BUT... I still believe that "lean principles" and "doing stupid things" are orthogonal ideas. Nothing about embracing lean mandates (or even suggests) doing something this lame-brained. I think it was a bit of an unreasonable jab at lean startup advocates, by the author of this piece.

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#13

Post by ceejayoz » Sat, Jan 28, 2012, 8:31 PM UTC

derwildemomo wrote: post #10

I'm sorry, but am I the only one wondering about the ... tone of dhh's response? I mean, "fucking scumbags", is he like 14? He has every right to be upset, but the choice of words are in no way helpful. just saying..

I think anyone wondering about dhh's tone hasn't followed him on Twitter for long.

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#14

Post by gregpilling » Sat, Jan 28, 2012, 8:31 PM UTC

yangez wrote: post #5

At what point does inspiration become imitation? Clearly Curebit stepped over the line in this case, but it's undeniable that lots of startups draw design inspiration from other companies. But at what point does this become unacceptable? For example, if Curebit merely used the same design, except hosting the assets on their own server, would that be okay? What if they just copied the layout but used their own styles,…

If I was DHH I would have replaced the images with something else. It is always entertaining what you can do to someone's site if they are foolish enough to pull images off your server. Or they could have blocked the hotlinking of the image.

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#15

Post by kmfrk » Sat, Jan 28, 2012, 8:31 PM UTC

chrisacky wrote: post #6

Is this really such a big deal? We are all only where we are today based on building on the improvements of others. This isn't exactly like Zynga copying other small studios games, it's just a bit of design rip off, which incidentally, I'm not a designer, but if I see something that I think looks good on another site, I'm happy to copy the css styles for it. I've often thought if I'm just kidding myself, and what I'm…

I find it a problem when people's response is basically "I'm sorry I got caught", and not "I am legitimately sorry".

The part of the apology is realizing that a mistake was made in the first place. Failure to do that does not make you look good.

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#16

Post by derwildemomo » Sat, Jan 28, 2012, 8:32 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #13

derwildemomo wrote: post #10

I'm sorry, but am I the only one wondering about the ... tone of dhh's response? I mean, "fucking scumbags", is he like 14? He has every right to be upset, but the choice of words are in no way helpful. just saying..

I think anyone wondering about dhh's tone hasn't followed him on Twitter for long.

unfollowed him a long long time ago ( but i can still remember. )

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#17

Post by davej » Sat, Jan 28, 2012, 8:34 PM UTC

chrisacky wrote: post #6

Is this really such a big deal? We are all only where we are today based on building on the improvements of others. This isn't exactly like Zynga copying other small studios games, it's just a bit of design rip off, which incidentally, I'm not a designer, but if I see something that I think looks good on another site, I'm happy to copy the css styles for it. I've often thought if I'm just kidding myself, and what I'm…

I don't know about a lynch mob but for me it clearly reflects poor judgement, lack of integrity, and just plain laziness.

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#18

Post by thirdsun » Sat, Jan 28, 2012, 8:35 PM UTC

derwildemomo wrote: post #10

I'm sorry, but am I the only one wondering about the ... tone of dhh's response? I mean, "fucking scumbags", is he like 14? He has every right to be upset, but the choice of words are in no way helpful. just saying..

Exactly, This doesn't make him look very good. Beside the rude language, this isn't something grown-ups need to settle publicly via twitter. Very immature.

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#19

Post by vasco » Sat, Jan 28, 2012, 8:37 PM UTC

What I get from this situation is that the people over at 37 Signals are unfortunately, large kids, from the tweets present in the article. I see companies copying other companies' work all the time and although that's morally wrong, I also don't see how some lines of html are going to be the a relevant part of a company. (and if they are... bad news)

What I don't see everyday is this kind of immature responses from the copied companies. Usually they just brush it off, because they know that in the end of the day, they are the better company. I say this without any other knowledge of the situation apart from the article though.

Re: YC and 500 Startups company Curebit caught stealing from 37 Signals

#20

Post by mikeleeorg » Sat, Jan 28, 2012, 8:39 PM UTC

yangez wrote: post #5

At what point does inspiration become imitation? Clearly Curebit stepped over the line in this case, but it's undeniable that lots of startups draw design inspiration from other companies. But at what point does this become unacceptable? For example, if Curebit merely used the same design, except hosting the assets on their own server, would that be okay? What if they just copied the layout but used their own styles,…

I'm sure that line is subjective, though one could argue linking to assets from someone else's servers is akin to theft (stealing bandwidth and money).

But I think the bigger story here is how Curebit handled their reaction to DHH. This could have all been avoided if Allan replied with a more humble stance.

Personally, I think DHH's initial reaction was on the strong side. If Allan had realized that, he wouldn't have tried to rationalize their actions. I suspect if he humbly apologized, then stayed quiet, he could have saved himself a lot of heartache.

And if was really troubled by DHH's reaction, he could have just emailed him privately. Getting into a pissing match in a public forum can sometimes backfire (even if you think that negative press can be good press).