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Leaving China

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491–500 of 686 posts

Re: Leaving China

#491

Post by roca »

onethought wrote: post #360
photochemsyn wrote: post #214

I suspect China's draconian, desperate attempt to eliminate Covid entirely was largely due to official guilt. They knew that their poorly managed reckless science program at the Wuhan Institute of Virology was the source of the outbreak, and they wanted to somehow prove they could wipe the virus out entirely (which they couldn't). Eventually they had to give up. I wonder what happens to people in China who point this…

> I suspect China's draconian, desperate attempt to eliminate Covid entirely was largely due to official guilt. OR it was because they didn't have a vaccinated population and they couldn't build and staff hospitals fast enough to deal with a nation wide exponentially growing infection. Don't let facts get in the way of a good rant though.

They could have vaccinated their population while they were maintaining zero-COVID. It's a mystery to me why they didn't make vaccination mandatory.

Re: Leaving China

#492

Post by rhaway84773 »

photochemsyn wrote: post #214

I suspect China's draconian, desperate attempt to eliminate Covid entirely was largely due to official guilt. They knew that their poorly managed reckless science program at the Wuhan Institute of Virology was the source of the outbreak, and they wanted to somehow prove they could wipe the virus out entirely (which they couldn't). Eventually they had to give up. I wonder what happens to people in China who point this…

I suspect it had less to do with official guilt and more to do with the fact that Xi Jinping wanted to leave absolutely no opportunity open for an opposition to his 3rd term to form.

It’s not a coincidence that China maintained draconian controls for years, but within months of him getting his 3rd term (and immediately purging all viable political opponents from the party), he completely opened China at the first sign of protests.

Re: Leaving China

#493

Post by roca »

photochemsyn wrote: post #366
light_hue_1 wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of course it was all nonsense, Clinton and Bush were just listening to Wall Street interests I'm not a fan of either Clinton or Bush, but this is unfair. There was far more going on. At the time, there was a strong sense that democracy had won, and that it was inevitable. That empowering people economically would eventually, without fail, lead to democratic reform. Fukuyama's "The End of History and the Last Man" i…

I'm afraid my view is a bit more jaded - I think those storylines were manufactured for ulterior motives as part of an effort to sell a program to the American public that would significantly reduce the average standard of living while concentrating wealth in the hands of billionaires. They'd already seen the effects of NAFTA and with China, they were hungry for more of the same. I don't believe the conversion of the…

Lots of relatively rich countries are in the TPP, including my country, NZ. It has significant rules protecting labour and environmental conditions. It's fine.

From your link:

> The surplus with Mexico turned into a chronic deficit. And the economic dislocation in Mexico increased the the flow of undocumented workers into the United States.

So they're saying that jobs moving from the USA to Mexico increased the flow of Mexican workers to the USA? That makes no sense at all.

Re: Leaving China

#494

Post by concordDance »

satvikpendem wrote: post #197
mytailorisrich wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and it seemed inevitable that China would absorb Taiwan. No, it's unrealistic to think the the ROC would ever effectively surrender to the PRC however HK's reintegration was managed.

Your statement does not falsify the quoted statement; both can be true that the ROC would not surrender and that China might inevitably absorb Taiwan. If we want to get really pedantic, no timeline was also stated, so this could also be 50 to 500 years from now.

I would be very surprised if humans are still the main form of intelligence 500 years from now, let alone any countries still existing.

Re: Leaving China

#495

Post by concordDance »

fortuna86 wrote: post #335
tatrajim wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have to agree, from study in Taiwan, life in the PRC, Hong Kong, and South Korea over decades: democracy in Taiwan is healthier than that in the U.S. For the skeptical, check out videos of how ballots are counted in Taiwan. Individual ballots are lifted out on the ballot box, one-by-one, and held up for any and all observers to verify. Compare this to how the matter is typically conducted in the U.S., in near-secrecy…

every single election in the US is subject to a complete audit after the fact. counting quickly and verifying accurately after the fact are not mutually exclusive.

How hard an election is to rig is not the issue,itshow obviously unriggable it appears to the losing voters. That's the (well, an) important thing the American system is missing.

Re: Leaving China

#496

Post by hayst4ck »

galangalalgol wrote: post #447
hayst4ck wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are oriented for defending the American election. I think a better way to orient is to compare how Taiwanese elections are run to how American elections are run. My assertion is that Taiwanese elections are much more simple and therefore much more understandable and much more trustable. American elections might be cheaper per capita. If we are choosing a method of elections that is more complex and result…

In many places in the US you cannot bring your children with you to vote. So many people rely on public schools as day care so that they can vote. In places that cancelled school on election day recently (people vote at schools often, and there were security concerns after recent shootings), the voter turnout was lower in segments of the population that statistically are less likely to have family/partner available t…

I think it is fair to restate that your argument is: "Because there are classes of people who cannot vote because children are restricted in voting areas, election day should not be a federal holiday."

I am having a little trouble taking that in good faith. For one, the evidence presented is not of a holiday shared by everyone (friends who could watch kids, partners who also have jobs, etc).

That's before asking if it's right that children cannot be with you to vote or if that could be done better. That's before asking if there was higher turnout in other groups, like underpaid teachers.

Re: Leaving China

#497

Post by roca »

RedCondor wrote: post #364
m00x wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working class people get killed in China too. My friend's wife's family completely disappeared because they said something bad about the local government on WeChat. Their house was empty when she went to check up on them (after COVID). Neighbors said the police came in and they haven't seen them since. She now blames herself for not bringing them to Canada. The reason the surveys are so high is because they fear it's…

[flagged]

I know some Christians in NZ who are from mainland China. They have the same stories.

Re: Leaving China

#498

Post by concordDance »

Aperocky wrote: post #134
hayst4ck wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watched a Taiwanese election in Taiwan. I observed their polling stations. A Taiwanese citizen started a conversation and educated me, an American, on democracy and elections. This Taiwanese person told me that elections are for the loser. If the loser does not believe in the validity of the election, it serves no purpose. That's why electronic voting machines are anti-thetical to the purpose of an election. Electr…

> If the loser does not believe in the validity of the election, it serves no purpose. The idea seems correct, however, unsure how electronic voting machine comes into the picture, perhaps only in a mental sense, but people have shown that they will not believe in the validity of the election regardless of the evidence presented.

> people have shown that they will not believe in the validity of the election regardless of the evidence presented.

This is misleading. The vast majority will have had no exposure to that evidence (there's no big stage you can do convincing presentations on that everyone will see).

Heck, I wouldn't know how to go about finding that evidence atm.

Re: Leaving China

#499

Post by roca »

brankoB wrote: post #349
nebukhadnezzar wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Full mask off now, who would want to live in a democracy if you can live under the boot of an authoritarian narcissistic personality cult.

What democracy? Citizen interests haven't mattered for a looong time.

Really? Why is Biden canceling student debt then?

Re: Leaving China

#500

Post by concordDance »

photochemsyn wrote: post #214

I suspect China's draconian, desperate attempt to eliminate Covid entirely was largely due to official guilt. They knew that their poorly managed reckless science program at the Wuhan Institute of Virology was the source of the outbreak, and they wanted to somehow prove they could wipe the virus out entirely (which they couldn't). Eventually they had to give up. I wonder what happens to people in China who point this…

This is a very controversial set of claims on a very heated topic, so you should not make such bold claims without a link to further reading or some sources in your post. Otherwise you just make a lot of heat with no light.
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