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Leaving China

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Re: Leaving China

#451

Post by blackbear_ »

scrubs wrote: post #97
jasonjei wrote: post #63

I used to travel to China all the time for work during my first job in 2008. Those times were super optimistic. Hong Kong was filled with Chinese pride, and it seemed inevitable that China would absorb Taiwan. China had just hosted the Olympics. I visited Hong Kong late 2018 after many years of not having been there. It was a very different place from the Hong Kong I had visited in 2009-2011. The energy was a bit dar…

Although off topic from the original post, would you entertain this question? What's Taiwan's position on integration with China? What does Taiwan want for itself? I'd like to hear more about that minus American and Chinese input.

Feel free to check this report from The Economist: https://www.economist.com/special-report/2023-03-11

Table of contents:

- Taiwan: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

- The past: How Taiwan is shaped by its history and identity

- The economy: It is time to divert Taiwan’s trade and investment from China

- Semiconductors: Taiwan’s dominance of the chip industry makes it more important

- The home front: The battle with China is psychological as much as physical

- Defence: Taiwan needs a new defence strategy to deal with China

- Politics: Taiwanese politics faces a crucial election in early 2024

- What Taiwan needs: Taiwan desperately needs support from the world

Re: Leaving China

#452

Post by wolverine876 »

jasonjei wrote: post #63

I used to travel to China all the time for work during my first job in 2008. Those times were super optimistic. Hong Kong was filled with Chinese pride, and it seemed inevitable that China would absorb Taiwan. China had just hosted the Olympics. I visited Hong Kong late 2018 after many years of not having been there. It was a very different place from the Hong Kong I had visited in 2009-2011. The energy was a bit dar…

> retained elements of Chinese culture cancelled during the cultural revolution

Very interesting. Would you go into more detail?

Re: Leaving China

#453

Post by galangalalgol »

physicles wrote: post #408

I've got some years in China. I speak Chinese, I'm eating a jianbing[1] as I write this. Didn't leave during the three years of zero covid. Reopening has changed everything about daily life in the best way. But I'm also looking for a way out. For the reasons outlined in the article, yes, and others. General sentiment toward foreigners has rebounded a bit since the early days of the pandemic, but it's pretty clear tha…

Berlin as an option stands out both geographically and in cost of living. What makes it attractive despite that?

Re: Leaving China

#454

Post by deadfoxygrandpa »

freitzkriesler2 wrote: post #32
tiny_ta wrote: post #13

It's so interesting to read this perspective since it drives home "the grass is always greener.." for me. I've lived a pretty charmed life in the US for the past few years (like the majority of HN, I imagine) but I find myself longing to move to a country with dense cities, affordable housing in the city center, great public infrastructure and a modicum of agreement among the citizens and China fits the bill pretty g…

I've lived in China and I can tell you, you will NOT like China especially for the reasons you've stated. China has a ton of problems that aren't readily apparent unless you are feet on the ground. The majority of the culture of china is, "dog eat dog" in that you will be scammed and taken advantage of unless you speak fluent Mandarin. You will run into problems with excessive Chinese bureaucracy both with the govern…

sounds like you havent lived in china for a long time. it's better now

Re: Leaving China

#455

Post by SkyMarshal »

throwawaymaths wrote: post #405
SkyMarshal wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree. There was even historical evidence that narrative was wrong and that an authoritarian government could co-exist with an industrial economy - pre-WWII Germany and Japan. Development, industrialization, and capitalism don’t automatically bring democracy, freedoms, and political liberalization. That was all just a BS fiction foisted on the US public and policy class by voracious banks, corps, and their…

But consider that economic development helped turn south korea and Taiwan from brutal dictatorships to relatively stable and sustainable democracies. It wasn't crazy to think it would work in China, and it looked like there was buy-in and progress for an (if slow) gradual bringing into the fold process that suddenly t reversed course in 2016-ish

The crucial difference everyone overlooks is that an ideological dictatorship like communism is more sticky than a run-of-the-mill non-ideological dictatorship like those of SK and Taiwan.

The core belief of the communist party is will to power - getting and keeping power by any means necessary. There is no balance of power, separation of powers, checks and balances, independent court system, separation of military from political party, constitutional review or law, individual human rights, etc. Hence the term totalitarian - total control of people’s behavior, speech, and even thought.

All of communist ideology is an elaborate justification and sophisticated plan for getting and keeping absolute and unrestricted power. It is too deeply ingrained, too sticky so to speak, in communist party psyche and identity. Unlike SK and Taiwan it was never going to liberalize and discard itself in favor of democracy, an ideology directly counter to its core beliefs.

Re: Leaving China

#456

Post by alwayslikethis »

yibg wrote: post #224
nonethewiser wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You were paid ~150k+ USD in China, from a Chinese employer?

Not a Chinese employer, although you'd be surprised at the comp levels for some companies in the larger city in China. I was working for a US employer with an office in China. EDIT: to provide more details. Total comp of 200k USD and up at some of the larger (e.g. BAT companies) isn't uncommon for the more senior folks.

It's not surprising for the reasons you stated. People from Western countries find living in China undesirable, hence they need to be paid a lot to go there and work.

Re: Leaving China

#457

Post by wolverine876 »

yodsanklai wrote: post #179
scrubs wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although off topic from the original post, would you entertain this question? What's Taiwan's position on integration with China? What does Taiwan want for itself? I'd like to hear more about that minus American and Chinese input.

My wife is Taiwanese. She's seriously planning on fighting for her country should there be an invasion. She doesn't want anything to do with China and my understanding is that most younger taiwanese share that opinion. But some consider that a reunion could bring them better economical prospects and would be willing to sacrifice their freedom. I don't think this will end well.

One surprising aspect of that is Taiwan's very limited compulsery military service - I think it was a month, recently lengthened to 6 months? What I read says that such service is very unpopular.

I don't understand a lot about it, but wouldn't people expecting an invasion from a much larger country want universal compulsary service and as much training as they can get? Even for those less motivated about winning, it would help them survive a war.

Re: Leaving China

#458

Post by nomay »

photochemsyn wrote: post #214

I suspect China's draconian, desperate attempt to eliminate Covid entirely was largely due to official guilt. They knew that their poorly managed reckless science program at the Wuhan Institute of Virology was the source of the outbreak, and they wanted to somehow prove they could wipe the virus out entirely (which they couldn't). Eventually they had to give up. I wonder what happens to people in China who point this…

The regime has trumpeted the superiority of their political and governing system since the second month of covid-19, in stark contrast to the decadent and degenerate west, daily news started with data of how many more thousands died in the US.

That’s a good 2 whole years on a roll, no matter how illogical it seemed, it worked.

Until spring 2022, from where it lost control.

Re: Leaving China

#459

Post by wolverine876 »

thowieruoi3243 wrote: post #392
jasonjei wrote: post #63

I used to travel to China all the time for work during my first job in 2008. Those times were super optimistic. Hong Kong was filled with Chinese pride, and it seemed inevitable that China would absorb Taiwan. China had just hosted the Olympics. I visited Hong Kong late 2018 after many years of not having been there. It was a very different place from the Hong Kong I had visited in 2009-2011. The energy was a bit dar…

> it’s a bastion of a mandarin-speaking democracy, or in software terms a hard fork of an alternate reality of what China could have been. I don't want to reduce what you've said, but the fact is that Taiwan grew rich because of US support that helped integrate it into the global economy, and that wouldn't have come without its opposition to the mainland. Similarly, China wouldn't have grown rich had it not been a pa…

Can you provide any good sources for these claims?

> China wouldn't have grown rich had it not been a pawn against USSR.

China's split from the USSR began in the early 1970s under Mao. The first seeds of economic growth didn't sprout until the late 1970s under Deng Xiaopeng. Most of China's economic growth didn't happen until after the USSR was gone.

Re: Leaving China

#460

Post by thefounder »

claytongulick wrote: post #114
thefounder wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are worse places for muslims than China as far as human rights are concerned. I feel the whole muslim issue in China is just a pretext. Have we forgot about Saudi Arabia or whatever mess is left in Afghanistan?

I'm trying to understand the point you're making. Are you making the argument that because there are things that are possibly worse, we should ignore the bad?

I'm just saying that it's a pretext. Like China would start saying the world should stop trading with the U.S until the U.S fixes the mess it did in Iraq(i.e war reparations).
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