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Leaving China

persuasion.community

321–330 of 686 posts

Re: Leaving China

#321
I am an American expat who just moved from Germany to Indonesia about six months ago. One thing I see is that the comments he makes about China echo my views of the West. Where there was once optimism and openness, there is growing political repression (though in the US, we outsource this to the private sector so that we can actively argue that it doesn't exist). What is driving a lot of this in the West is the effort to sever economic ties with both Russia and China. I can imagine that this provokes a similar though opposite-facing response in countries like Russia and China, as if Newton's Third Law applies to geopolitics as well. My brother lives in Beijing, though.

What I see in Southeast Asia, though, is quite different. While there is a lot of uncertainty about the direction of global geopolitics, and while this also has a strong effort at finding a direction towards economic development on their own terms. Indonesia is becoming increasingly assertive in this regard, for example banning export of nickel ore (and ending up in a legal fight with the EU over that), and planning to do the same for bauxite soon as well. These bans are designed to ensure that those who want to exploit the nation's natural resources have to contribute directly to its economic development on Indonesian and not WTO, US, or EU terms.

Indonesian approaches to social management and rule of law are still quite foreign to me but these (even more than in the US) are very decentralized. A majority of the population still works independently or for small family businesses though the largest employer is the government. I still struggle with the disconnect between rules and laws. But the optimism here, in part born by the hope that the legacy of colonialism may finally be drawing to a close, is contagious.

I think sometimes leaving the great powers can be liberating.

Re: Leaving China

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife is Taiwanese. She's seriously planning on fighting for her country should there be an invasion. She doesn't want anything to do with China and my understanding is that most younger taiwanese share that opinion. But some consider that a reunion could bring them better economical prospects and would be willing to sacrifice their freedom. I don't think this will end well.

[flagged]

Explain your comment. Drive-bys are not well tolerated on HN.

Re: Leaving China

#323

Warning: this thread is very likely to be heavily astroturfed by Chinese influence operations. This is exactly the type of question and discussion that provides a perfect opportunity to change or chip at your opinion on China. Hence: - “Taiwan is acqshually a dictatorship” - “The integration of HK was managed extremely well” - “China may have X, but whatabout Y in the US/decadent West/Europe” - “That’s it, I’m moving…

Citation needed: I'm not seeing a single comment claiming any of those. (Except noting that Taiwan was a dictatorship, but while it was, it's not one anymore.)

Re: Leaving China

#324
post #13

It's so interesting to read this perspective since it drives home "the grass is always greener.." for me. I've lived a pretty charmed life in the US for the past few years (like the majority of HN, I imagine) but I find myself longing to move to a country with dense cities, affordable housing in the city center, great public infrastructure and a modicum of agreement among the citizens and China fits the bill pretty g…

I've lived in China and I can tell you, you will NOT like China especially for the reasons you've stated. China has a ton of problems that aren't readily apparent unless you are feet on the ground. The majority of the culture of china is, "dog eat dog" in that you will be scammed and taken advantage of unless you speak fluent Mandarin. You will run into problems with excessive Chinese bureaucracy both with the govern…

How do they know he is from the US?

Re: Leaving China

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>there are claims that covid was detected in the US months before covid spread in Wuhan. I've heard claims it spread in China months before it's official detection in Wuhan, but not regarding the US. Source?

It was detected in European samples (Spain, Italy) collected as early as March 2019 and is likely to have been spreading around the US by that point already.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-spain-...

Re: Leaving China

#326
post #62
post #3

Why do we call people expats and not rich migrants or something like that?

Because US and EU citizens think that "immigrant" is a dirty word for people from poor countries. To all the other people talking about intent to settle or not: read the post. The author lived in China for 20 years and built a family there. They're not an "expat" under any technical definition of the word.

EU citizens mostly don't think in English at all... In most languages you would call someone who moves abroad an emigrant or something similar. From the point of view of the new country, they are obviously an immigrant. The word for people from poor countries is refugee or "economic migrant".

Re: Leaving China

#327

I suspect China's draconian, desperate attempt to eliminate Covid entirely was largely due to official guilt. They knew that their poorly managed reckless science program at the Wuhan Institute of Virology was the source of the outbreak, and they wanted to somehow prove they could wipe the virus out entirely (which they couldn't). Eventually they had to give up. I wonder what happens to people in China who point this…

I think a more likely scenario is that all countries did what they could and China succeeded better than any other major land country. But then, as victims of their success, the costs of doing less increased with each new wave and when Omicron hit Hong Kong, the death rate soared in a way it didn't in the West.

Hong Kong was not the only place to have high death rates from Omicron. New Zealand did as well. But none of the countries which had difficulty controlling earlier Covid outbreaks did.

We are often prisoners of our own successes more than we are victims of our errors.

Re: Leaving China

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate your question because I have spent a lot of time in the past thinking about this :) > I’m genuinely curious because every person defines personal freedom differently. And great society is very subjective. I couldn't agree more! I believe that all of us have to give up some personal freedom if we want to live in a functional society. I may want to blast music from my rooftop at 3AM but I must curb that ur…

I appreciate your perspective, because it's one that I've so often found confounding. > I think I lie towards giving up more if it gives me a comfortable society in return It seems like you are very practical minded, which I appreciate. I think the fundamental skepticism that those of us who tend to be more "libertarian" minded is whether you're actually getting value in return for giving up liberties. > I am willing…

> Drive from New Mexico, through Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama to Florida sometime and compare the roads and bridges.

TBF it's much easier to maintain infrastructure in a mild climate.

Re: Leaving China

#329
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been working in, and out of South China since 2009, and have called it quit 2019, when it became clear the industry was done for, and CoVID mess only reinforced my decision. I never held any fraternal feelings with the country, even though I am ethnic Chinese, nor I had any delusions about making long term plans there. In my years there, I kept seeing rose coloured glasses wearing American expats. I met Tim Cook…

Had me fooled I thought you were a Pakistani for quite a while

Chinese-Russian it seems: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33922218

Re: Leaving China

#330
post #303

I used to travel to China all the time for work during my first job in 2008. Those times were super optimistic. Hong Kong was filled with Chinese pride, and it seemed inevitable that China would absorb Taiwan. China had just hosted the Olympics. I visited Hong Kong late 2018 after many years of not having been there. It was a very different place from the Hong Kong I had visited in 2009-2011. The energy was a bit dar…

would you consider living in Singapore? It seems to have a lot going for it, maybe apart from the high living expense.

And there's never a (proper) Winter night :)
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