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Leaving China

persuasion.community

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Re: Leaving China

#151

Post by vidarh »

foobiekr wrote: post #10
toomuchtodo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world will adapt when labor becomes scarce, it will have no other choice. The more scarce labor is, the more pricing power it has. Arguing over “what if AGI” is like arguing about nuclear war and winter. It might happen, but no plans you form for it will survive contact with reality, so there is very little value in spending cycles on optimizing for it.

Labor isn't really going to become scarce this century. Nigeria, etc.

Fertility rates are dropping across Africa too, and while the growth will continue for a few more decades, maybe until the end of the century, labour will increasingly be scarce where we need it. There'll be significant political and social upheaval while countries deal with figuring out how to compete for immigrants.

Re: Leaving China

#152

Post by slowmotiony »

tiny_ta wrote: post #13

It's so interesting to read this perspective since it drives home "the grass is always greener.." for me. I've lived a pretty charmed life in the US for the past few years (like the majority of HN, I imagine) but I find myself longing to move to a country with dense cities, affordable housing in the city center, great public infrastructure and a modicum of agreement among the citizens and China fits the bill pretty g…

"As a sidenote, the author says he does not like his kids playing "war" in Chinese playgrounds - I wonder how he will feel about the active shooter drills that are now part of every kids life in the US. Note: I'm not Chinese."

Well obviously, since if you were Chinese you'd know that kids in China are doing drills to protect themselves against psychos with knives who attack schools. Like actual grownups with machetes randomly killing children. Those attacks are happening all the time by the way.

Re: Leaving China

#153

Post by panza »

maskedinvader wrote: post #129

Can we at HN at-least refer to the author as immigrant as opposed to expats? what's an expat anyways ? why does the western world to get to make these tiers where they are expats but arabs, asians, africans etc are all immigrants ?

An expat is not an immigrant. It would be incorrect to call the author - who is an expat - an immigrant.

Re: Leaving China

#154

Post by hayst4ck »

tiny_ta wrote: post #13

It's so interesting to read this perspective since it drives home "the grass is always greener.." for me. I've lived a pretty charmed life in the US for the past few years (like the majority of HN, I imagine) but I find myself longing to move to a country with dense cities, affordable housing in the city center, great public infrastructure and a modicum of agreement among the citizens and China fits the bill pretty g…

Taiwan is everything that is good about Chinese culture, with very little of what is bad.

The drawback of Taiwan is that there isn't nearly the level of "white monkey" opportunities and you aren't as exotic.

China is also more extreme. You will have more extreme positive experiences and more extreme negative experiences.

Re: Leaving China

#155

Post by MichaelZuo »

chasil wrote: post #43
baybal2 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been working in, and out of South China since 2009, and have called it quit 2019, when it became clear the industry was done for, and CoVID mess only reinforced my decision. I never held any fraternal feelings with the country, even though I am ethnic Chinese, nor I had any delusions about making long term plans there. In my years there, I kept seeing rose coloured glasses wearing American expats. I met Tim Cook…

You have a decisive level of bravery for your willingness to say this. I applaud you for your clarity on the country of your ancestors. It is a shame.

I see comment chains touching on this topic in nearly every post even tangentially related to China, and it's rarely ever that the main issue is mentioned. So I'll write this for the benefit of any passing reader with similar thoughts.

In a country of 1.x billions, it shouldn't be surprising that there would be at least a few tens of millions of hardcore, actual socialists, who genuinely believe in some distant future communist utopia.

Even if the entire rest of the population were the most perfect paragons of virtue imaginable, it's still likely going to be the hardcore folks willing to fight to the death en bloc that end up with the actual power. That's just how the cookie crumbles in every country.

Whether it's ultra-Maoists in China, or ultra-Hindus in India, or ultra-muslims in Islamic countries, ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel, etc..

The real question is whether or not the bulk of the hardcore group can be enticed with enough potential rewards to moderate their views.

Wealth works if there's a lot to go around, like in the U.S., EU, etc., but otherwise the hardcore group needs to be paid in some form of power, geopolitical, cultural, etc.

Re: Leaving China

#156

Post by givemeethekeys »

maskedinvader wrote: post #129

Can we at HN at-least refer to the author as immigrant as opposed to expats? what's an expat anyways ? why does the western world to get to make these tiers where they are expats but arabs, asians, africans etc are all immigrants ?

An immigrant hopes to settle down in the host country, have / grow a family there, own property and even become a citizen. Of course, if the host nation does not have a citizenship program for foreigners, then everyone who isn't a citizen is an expat.

An expat hopes, even plans to move back to where they came from. They're in their host nation for work reasons only because, at least according to the expat, where they're from is a "better" place than their host country.

Re: Leaving China

#157

Post by tiny_ta »

nazka wrote: post #128
tiny_ta wrote: post #13

It's so interesting to read this perspective since it drives home "the grass is always greener.." for me. I've lived a pretty charmed life in the US for the past few years (like the majority of HN, I imagine) but I find myself longing to move to a country with dense cities, affordable housing in the city center, great public infrastructure and a modicum of agreement among the citizens and China fits the bill pretty g…

I don’t understand. Why not Europe? There are so many great countries/cities in Europe for exactly what you are looking for! And much more. You will avoid all the negative points from China that someone listed on another comment. While improving your life beyond work. 1-3 hours to so many wide destinations from Paris to London, Amsterdam, Oslo, Jerusalem… All while beyond guns you will have same to more freedom. Less…

Europe is definitely on my list! Some things like economic conditions in the likes of UK and Germany give me pause, but I would love to live in all these different places and experience life there. Such a short life and so many places to be (and such tedious immigration forms)!

Re: Leaving China

#158

Post by [deleted] »

RedCondor wrote: post #133
meh8881 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you citing the Chinese government as the best source on supposed Chinese government atrocities?

Absolutely. If the accusation is "the Chinese government denies it!" the best way to demonstrate the falsehood is by citing the Chinese government not denying it. It seems pretty straightforward.

[deleted]

Re: Leaving China

#159

Post by vgchh »

panza wrote: post #153
maskedinvader wrote: post #129

Can we at HN at-least refer to the author as immigrant as opposed to expats? what's an expat anyways ? why does the western world to get to make these tiers where they are expats but arabs, asians, africans etc are all immigrants ?

An expat is not an immigrant. It would be incorrect to call the author - who is an expat - an immigrant.

Resident Alien - I think that’s how USCIS calls people who do intend to stay but not immigrate

Re: Leaving China

#160

Post by paxys »

givemeethekeys wrote: post #156
maskedinvader wrote: post #129

Can we at HN at-least refer to the author as immigrant as opposed to expats? what's an expat anyways ? why does the western world to get to make these tiers where they are expats but arabs, asians, africans etc are all immigrants ?

An immigrant hopes to settle down in the host country, have / grow a family there, own property and even become a citizen. Of course, if the host nation does not have a citizenship program for foreigners, then everyone who isn't a citizen is an expat. An expat hopes, even plans to move back to where they came from. They're in their host nation for work reasons only because, at least according to the expat, where they…

The author has lived there for 20 years, married there, has kids who go to local schools, yet calls himself an expat, and everyone here seems to accept that as an obvious truth. Meanwhile a million+ people coming to the USA on temporary work visas fully intending to go back to their home country (or illegally with no path to citizenship) are obviously immigrants. At some point people have to come to terms that this isn't about some technical definition of "immigrant" vs "expat" but a deeper prejudice.
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