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Cocaine production reaches record levels as new trafficking hubs emerge

bbc.com

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Re: Cocaine production reaches record levels as new trafficking hubs emerge

#51

Post by standardUser »

danrocks wrote: post #43
standardUser wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's never been more clear than it is now thanks to Fentanyl. How often do people have accidental overdoses because their beer was contaminated? Or their Adderall? Never happens, virtually inconceivable. But the majority of overdoses from illegal drugs are due to either inaccurate dosage or unknown contaminants, problems that essentially cease to exist for legal drugs.

Agree in parts but behind this argument there is an assumption that legal drugs would cause the market for illegal drugs to collapse entirely. Has not happened with alcohol (between 14 and 23% of alcohol sold in the US is illegal). Adderall (fake or legit) is heavily sold illegally and their lacing with Fentanyl is a massive problem already.

I think it's imperative we prevent people from dying even if our solution is imperfect. Legal sources of currently illegal drugs would save lives full stop.

Re: Cocaine production reaches record levels as new trafficking hubs emerge

#52

Post by yetanotherloss »

mabbo wrote: post #36
plantwallshoe wrote: post #2

Everyone I know who recreationally does cocaine is scared to continue because of the risk of fentanyl contamination.

Curious: from an economic perspective why would anyone in the industry want to contaminate their product like that? Like it's a fundamentally different substance with a different effect. If you bought mixed drugs from your dealer, you'd probably not do business with them again and would warn people away from them.

They don't do it intentionally for the most part, it's cross contamination or poorly handling and lab protocol by people with cargo cult training.

Re: Cocaine production reaches record levels as new trafficking hubs emerge

#53

Post by danrocks »

fogforthought93 wrote: post #39
danrocks wrote: post #30

One of the favorite conspiracy theories of mine is that Fentanyl is a secret government project designed to scare the shit out of drug users so they stop using due to the fear of contamination.

What would the short-term benefit of this be for the government?

Reducing consumption of drugs in general due to mass spreading of fear of instant death from laced coke could be one.

Also there's money in selling Fentanyl.

Re: Cocaine production reaches record levels as new trafficking hubs emerge

#54

Post by standardUser »

influx wrote: post #46
standardUser wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concept is fundamentally flawed. Curtailing rights and imprisoning people for victmimless crimes is incompatible with anything approaching a free society. There are many approaches to dealing with the problems inherent with drugs, we just keep using the wrong over and over and at an extraordinary cost, in money, liberty and ruined lives.

Living in Seattle and seeing the fentanyl crisis first hand, I disagree with you that addicts aren’t victims. Not to mention the citizens who are victimized by the crime needed to sustain that addiction. Legalization of marijuana has gone fine, but there are drugs so powerful that adults lose all control and reason, and I can’t see ever legalizing something like that.

The people you see on the street are a tiny percentage of illegal drug users. I'd also consider the vast range of options between where we are now (people dying regularly from contaminated street drugs, spreading diseases, violence associated with black markets) and full-on, no limits legalization. Somewhere in between is a place where we can save lives, enhance liberty and still not have Ultra-Meth available at every corner store.

Re: Cocaine production reaches record levels as new trafficking hubs emerge

#55

Post by standardUser »

explaininjs wrote: post #44
standardUser wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The war on drugs is the sole cause of drug-related violence. If you want to end violence related to the drug trade in free societies, the solution is to end the drug war, not mass executions.

Solidly false. Just a few days ago I was held from behind with a knife to my neck by a Colombian who was sure I had cocaine and was demanding I hand it over. After insisting I didn't, he threw us both to the ground and choked me out until I went limp. I was mentally aware of the sensation of him stealing all my shit (as a backpacker, everything I had was on me), but was too out of breath when I came back around to do…

The vast majority of documented violence related to drugs is from the black market drug trade. There will always be drug addicts and antisocial behavior. But the black market violence only exists because government refuse to end those black markets.

Re: Cocaine production reaches record levels as new trafficking hubs emerge

#56

Post by zoklet-enjoyer »

influx wrote: post #46
standardUser wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concept is fundamentally flawed. Curtailing rights and imprisoning people for victmimless crimes is incompatible with anything approaching a free society. There are many approaches to dealing with the problems inherent with drugs, we just keep using the wrong over and over and at an extraordinary cost, in money, liberty and ruined lives.

Living in Seattle and seeing the fentanyl crisis first hand, I disagree with you that addicts aren’t victims. Not to mention the citizens who are victimized by the crime needed to sustain that addiction. Legalization of marijuana has gone fine, but there are drugs so powerful that adults lose all control and reason, and I can’t see ever legalizing something like that.

There would be a lot less problems if fentanyl was legally available for addicts

Re: Cocaine production reaches record levels as new trafficking hubs emerge

#57

Post by jgwil2 »

jurimasa wrote: post #31
danrocks wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived in Asia (low drug problems) and Latin America (drug-dominated hellhole) I much prefer the way drugs (and dealers) are dealt with in Asia than in Latam. The idea that waging war on drugs is a bad one sounds like a nut idea from out-of-touch people who have never been to a narco-state like Brazil, Mexico, or Colombia.

As a Colombian, you have no idea of what you are writing about.

Would you mind sharing your perspective?

Re: Cocaine production reaches record levels as new trafficking hubs emerge

#58

Post by explaininjs »

standardUser wrote: post #55
explaininjs wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solidly false. Just a few days ago I was held from behind with a knife to my neck by a Colombian who was sure I had cocaine and was demanding I hand it over. After insisting I didn't, he threw us both to the ground and choked me out until I went limp. I was mentally aware of the sensation of him stealing all my shit (as a backpacker, everything I had was on me), but was too out of breath when I came back around to do…

The vast majority of documented violence related to drugs is from the black market drug trade. There will always be drug addicts and antisocial behavior. But the black market violence only exists because government refuse to end those black markets.

I mean yeah sure whatever but you've moved the goalposts into a tautology: "the war on drugs is the sole cause of drug-related violence" => "black markets and their constituents wouldn't exist if governments got rid of them".

You should also consider that your idea of the "vast majority of documented violence related to drugs" is probably very far from the real set of violence related to drugs, in no small part because as you admit: it happens in black markets, where documentation is notoriously unreliable.

And, FWIW, my case is in all likelihood present in 0 "documentations". I was able to talk to the police briefly after, but it was treated as a robbery (and completely disregarded).

Re: Cocaine production reaches record levels as new trafficking hubs emerge

#59

Post by Gualdrapo »

jurimasa wrote: post #31
danrocks wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived in Asia (low drug problems) and Latin America (drug-dominated hellhole) I much prefer the way drugs (and dealers) are dealt with in Asia than in Latam. The idea that waging war on drugs is a bad one sounds like a nut idea from out-of-touch people who have never been to a narco-state like Brazil, Mexico, or Colombia.

As a Colombian, you have no idea of what you are writing about.

Exactly. Never imagined I'd read such 'gringo' statement on here.

Re: Cocaine production reaches record levels as new trafficking hubs emerge

#60

Post by the_only_law »

influx wrote: post #46
standardUser wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concept is fundamentally flawed. Curtailing rights and imprisoning people for victmimless crimes is incompatible with anything approaching a free society. There are many approaches to dealing with the problems inherent with drugs, we just keep using the wrong over and over and at an extraordinary cost, in money, liberty and ruined lives.

Living in Seattle and seeing the fentanyl crisis first hand, I disagree with you that addicts aren’t victims. Not to mention the citizens who are victimized by the crime needed to sustain that addiction. Legalization of marijuana has gone fine, but there are drugs so powerful that adults lose all control and reason, and I can’t see ever legalizing something like that.

> but there are drugs so powerful that adults lose all control and reason,

You mean like alcohol?

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