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Build full “product skills” and you'll probably be fine

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Re: Build full “product skills” and you'll probably be fine

#351

Post by lr4444lr »

noodles_nomore wrote: post #54

An average programmer's main job is to track down and fix bugs that shouldn't exist inside software that shouldn't exist build on frameworks that shouldn't exist for companies that shouldn't exist solving problems that shouldn't exist in industry niches that shouldn't exist. I'm 100% convinced that, if someone comes along and creates something that actually obsoletes 95% of programming jobs, everyone would very quick…

Exactly this.

Everyone thinks only in terms of current needs and state of affairs of people when analyzing a future technology. No one thinks about the insatiable human desire for more and the higher expectations for that new normal that always meets the increased productivity available. Anything that automatically solves much of our wants is doomed to be static and limited.

Re: Build full “product skills” and you'll probably be fine

#352

Post by circuit10 »

carlmr wrote: post #29

Looking back we had one CS professor who in 2007 predicted we'd all be jobless in ten years, i.e. 2017. His prediction was based on the trends he was seeing at the time. But it wasn't even AI. Instead he made this prediction because he saw the rise of no-code tools replacing software developers because managers could finally cut out the pesky "translators", i.e. software developers. I said it then and I will say it n…

[dead]

Re: Build full “product skills” and you'll probably be fine

#353

Post by spydum »

A_Venom_Roll wrote: post #324
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the things that I'm fairly good at, is walking people from "Crazy Idea That Will Never Work," through to "Finished Product That People Want." It tends to be a very long process, and often involves a lot of "trial balloons." I just went through that, in the last couple of years. The project we're realizing, looks absolutely nothing at all like what the CEO originally dreamed up, but everyone that has seen it, l…

I love this approach. What is your current role that allows you to do that?

Quite a few companies have innovation incubators/teams, and this is inline with how I have seen them work.

Re: Build full “product skills” and you'll probably be fine

#354

Post by sokoloff »

Yoric wrote: post #345
8organicbits wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't most of those people look towards early retirement? We've failed as a society if 60 year olds end their career in one of the highest paying professions and they cant cover rent and food.

I know a few people who are a bit younger (maybe 55?) and who, after a career in high impact jobs, found themselves without any possible position. I know that they're not nearly ready to retire. I don't know about how much savings they have. In these cases, that's entirely independent from AI, but I suspect that AI will only make it harder. And yes, it feels to me like society is failing for many people who are appro…

What is the driver underlying “no possible position”? Are they no longer capable/qualified to do anything that’s still done in the economy?

Or are they just unwilling to take a rank-and-file position?

Re: Build full “product skills” and you'll probably be fine

#355

Post by muyuu »

mdmglr wrote: post #258
muyuu wrote: post #253

if I were a teenager these days, I'd be more worried about the vasts amounts of money required to get a credential that may not be worth a damn in a few years time I wouldn't be worried about learning things that may become obsolete, even those particular skills that get obsoleted provide the student with extra ability to learn more PS: very nice of John Carmack taking time to respond such DMs

> vasts amounts of money required to get a credential that may not be worth a damn in a few years time are you referring to the degree program like CS or a degree across any field in general?

I'm talking about tuition in certain countries, for CS and other degrees as well. Its cost has spiralled out of control for some reason, but its value proposition certainly hasn't and it faces further challenges down the line.

Re: Build full “product skills” and you'll probably be fine

#356

Post by aflag »

gregjor wrote: post #287
aflag wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're considering that every company that needs SQL today would hire enough developers to essentially write most of it from scratch. While some might, most companies that use SQL would not exist, because the cost of developing their product would be prohibitive.

Maybe. Before Oracle (mid-80s) every company did write their own database code. I think a lot of smaller companies would struggle if that was still a requirement, but if relational/SQL had not come along we’d have something else like it.

That's exactly my point, though. In the mid 80s there were a lot fewer companies producing software. Nowadays we have many more.

Indeed SQL was not the only local maxima we could have gone for, but the point is that having an easy to use database with a powerful query language did not reduce the number of jobs, but instead increased it. Instead of a few companies hiring a lot of developers, we have a lot of companies hiring a few. The latter will usually mean more jobs.

Re: Build full “product skills” and you'll probably be fine

#357

Post by circuit10 »

mfuzzey wrote: post #314
carlmr wrote: post #29

Looking back we had one CS professor who in 2007 predicted we'd all be jobless in ten years, i.e. 2017. His prediction was based on the trends he was seeing at the time. But it wasn't even AI. Instead he made this prediction because he saw the rise of no-code tools replacing software developers because managers could finally cut out the pesky "translators", i.e. software developers. I said it then and I will say it n…

Yes quite agree. The same thing applies to trying to get business people to write "executable specifications" that can be used, if not to generate the code, to at least validate that the final system does what it's supposed to. They always complain that the "tools are too hard" but the real problem isn't the tools but that they are unable / unwilling to precisely specify what the system should do. They just want to h…

I asked ChatGPT “Let’s say I want a program to delete unused files. Can you write a detailed specification that a developer could use?”. I was as vague as possible on purpose.

Here’s what it gave me:

“Program Name: FileCleaner

Overview: The FileCleaner program is designed to identify and delete unused files from a specified folder or directory. The program scans the directory for files that have not been accessed for a specified period of time and prompts the user to delete them. The program is intended to free up disk space and improve system performance.

Requirements:

The program must be able to scan a specified folder or directory for files that have not been accessed for a specified period of time.

The user should be able to specify the time period after which a file will be considered unused.

The program should prompt the user to delete the identified unused files.

The user should have the option to select which files they want to delete.

The program should permanently delete the selected files from the system.

The program should log all deleted files, including their location and name, in a separate file for future reference.

The program should have a user-friendly interface that is easy to navigate and understand.

Functional Specification:

The user launches the FileCleaner program.

The user is prompted to select the folder or directory they want to scan for unused files.

The user is prompted to enter the time period after which a file will be considered unused (e.g., 30 days).

The program scans the specified folder or directory for files that have not been accessed for the specified time period.

The program displays a list of unused files, including their location and name. The user is prompted to select which files they want to delete.

The program permanently deletes the selected files from the system.

The program logs all deleted files, including their location and name, in a separate file for future reference.

The program displays a message indicating that the selected files have been successfully deleted.

The user can choose to exit the program or scan another folder or directory.

Non-Functional Specification:

The program must be designed and implemented using a high-level programming language, such as Python or Java.

The program should be able to handle large files and directories without crashing.

The program should have a user-friendly interface that is easy to navigate and understand.

The program should be able to run on multiple operating systems, including Windows, MacOS, and Linux.

The program should be secure and not pose a risk to the system or user data.

The program should be well-documented, with clear and concise instructions for use and troubleshooting.

By following these specifications, a developer can create a FileCleaner program that efficiently identifies and deletes unused files from a specified folder or directory.”

This could be improved even more by having it ask questions to narrow down exactly what is needed

Re: Build full “product skills” and you'll probably be fine

#358

Post by awesomeMilou »

tambourine_man wrote: post #123

I never would have expected these kinds of words from Carmack. Product skills, delivered value, help accomplish something for people. All sound like consulting/coaching. Carmack to me was a true hacker’s hacker. I guess it either gets to most of us eventually or programming as I knew it is truly over.

https://www.keentechnologies.com/

His new startup is literally a consulting / training agency.

Re: Build full “product skills” and you'll probably be fine

#359

Post by chiefalchemist »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #317
chiefalchemist wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

re: idea people True. And once their product hits the market, if it ever gets there, they don't thrive. Prior to launch they are sooooo in love with their idea that they are meticulous about features all the while thinking they're smarter than the market. They don't understand and appreciate the value of execution. Ideas are easy. Execution - because it involves people as well as adapting to change - is 10x harder. Y…

One of the things that I'm fairly good at, is walking people from "Crazy Idea That Will Never Work," through to "Finished Product That People Want." It tends to be a very long process, and often involves a lot of "trial balloons." I just went through that, in the last couple of years. The project we're realizing, looks absolutely nothing at all like what the CEO originally dreamed up, but everyone that has seen it, l…

Yes. They have a want. The key is to nail down the need. But they have to be willing.

Re: Build full “product skills” and you'll probably be fine

#360

Post by BiteCode_dev »

dangrover wrote: post #302
IIAOPSW wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GPTina already asked me a follow up question. Admittedly, it happened inside of a jailbreak I just kind of stumbled into, and it was a very trivial question, but the fact that she did it was profound. If she can ask one follow up question, there's nothing in the way of her asking a chain of follow up questions. And thus the basic structure needed to organize real conversation arises wholly as an emergent property. No…

It would be funny if, after years of research, that was the only condition it exhibited such behavior under. “Sooooo what fields should be (hiccup) required for users to register an account? Which version of React did you want it written in?”

This picked my curiosity, and I made an experiment. Turns that you can instruct gpt to ask questions with it's missing information:

https://twitter.com/bitecode_dev/status/1637420579278954501

Now that's going to be interesting.

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