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Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

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Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Simply because the very basic sounds of sanskrit "Chha" (छ), "Tri" (त्र), "Gya"(ज्ञ), compound sounds, halants and visargas are not present in any script before .... Wrong Brahmi was capable of representing Sanskrit sounds. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmi_script > Simply because much of (Brahman Dharm) Hinduism was invented after the invention of Devanagri script in 11 century. With this statement you have d…

* Again you should first read your own source wikipedia, where do you see in the alphabet table these sounds: "Ksha" (क्ष), "Tri" (त्र), "Gya"(ज्ञ) in Brahmi script character ? [correction i was talking about Ksha (क्ष) mistakenly wrote Chha (छ)] * Hathi Bada Ghoshundi is Pali in Brahmi script again which is a Buddhist language not Hindu, there is no actual manuscript of this photograph so it could be a hoax. None of…

> "Ksha" (क्ष), "Tri" (त्र), "Gya"(ज्ञ) in Brahmi script character ?

You claiming these to be the part of Sanskrit sound system which is incorrect. Show me an authentic Sanskrit alphabet in which these sound listed. For your information these letters aren't representing unique sound so they can be expressed as combinations of 2 letter while writing.

क् + ष = क्ष

त् + र = त्र

ज् + ञ = ज्ञ

All the various Sanskrit sound combinations and its nuances cannot be written down in any script, not even devnagri. Basic sound such as अ can have 18 different variations when spoken. Which script will have the capability to represent such richness. Hence it is an oral first language.

> * Hathi Bada Ghoshundi is Pali in Brahmi script again which is a Buddhist language not Hindu, there is no actual manuscript of this photograph so it could be a hoax. None of the Museums have the inscription for all we know it was on wood. and it got destroyed no one actually ever dated it only this photograph exists.

Make your mind. It is a hoax or it is a Buddhist inscription? Refute Heliodorus_pillar too as hoax.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliodorus_pillar

> You must stop with these claims and point to some actual archeological evidence.

If Brahmins came late then birth based caste system was a Buddhist invention?

https://www.jstor.org/stable/29757366

You also didn't refute Buddha's statements from Ariguttara Nikaya (II.35) in which he clearly seems to discriminate based on the birth. On the contrary you also did not produce evidence of birth based caste from 4 Vedas, 18 Upnishads, Ramayana, Mahabharata, or Bhagwad Gita.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not merely act as a conduit. Using your anology they act as amplifier, filter, signal processing, etc toward the knowledge contributions. These regions becoming even more prosperous due to these knowledge based activities after Islamic rules unlike India who becoming much poorer after the British colonization.

Your first part is debatable. The analogy i see is Arabs->later advancements(7th century and later) is the same as Mongols->later advancements(13th century and later). Both Arabs and Mongols were not inherently as "advanced" a civilization as the ones they conquered.

I'm not sure if you're trolling but I'll bite.

Unlike Mongols, Arab and Muslim scientists are well-knwon to have numerous and extensive contributions to the scientific knowledge. A lot of the novel scientific, mathematics, and other knowledge terminology are based on the Arabic languages namely algorithm, chemistry, alkali, just to name a few [1].

For medicine alone the contributions are numerous from Al-Nafis discovery of blood cirtculation several hunderds years before Harvey[2], Avicennna's book adoption as standard medicine textbooks for several hundred years at Oxford, Cambridge and other major European university [3], Ibn Al Quff the father of modern anesthasia [4] and Abu al-Qasim al-Zahrawai the father of modern surgery [5].

Actually I want to mention well-known contributions to mathematics and astronomy by Arab and muslim scientists and mathematicians as well, but I think you probably get the points by now.

If your claim is true about the Mongols I'd like you to come up with similar list just for modern medicine alone from the Mongolian scientists (not ancient China) but I doubt you can and will.

[1]List of English words of Arabic origin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_words_of_Arabi...

[2]Ibn al-Nafis:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_al-Nafis

[3]Avicenna:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avicenna

[4]An Arabic surgeon, Ibn al Quff's (1232–1286) account on surgical pain relief:

https://journals.lww.com/anar/Fulltext/2010/04010/Historical...

[5]Abu al-Qasim al-Zahrawi: Father of Modern Surgery:

https://www.hbku.edu.qa/en/academic-events/CIS-PM-AQAZFMS

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#293
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yeah - that's a big issue. Lots of big civilizational achievements were happening in what became the Islamic world before Islam became dominant.

My strong contention is that much of the credit for the "Golden Age of Islam" should go to these pre-Islamic civilizations whose achievements were forcibly appropriated by the Arabs under their "Islamic" conquest.

To be honest it's not your "strong contention" but rather your ignorant or in denial contention, but I think you probably is the latter. In Arabic the word kafir is not translated to the infidel as made popular by the western media but literally means the "those who are in denial" or "those who cover up".

Why not you provide and share your proper references of your case for not overly crediting the Arab and muslim contributions so we can all can learn and move forward, or you can create a reference book and a thesis on that? But even if you can provide proper references, in which I strongly doubt, what's wrong for crediting the Arab and muslim scholars where credits are due. It seems to me you have strong enmity towards them that they have had more contributions to the knowledge than you can even dream of yourself in your lifetime.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My strong contention is that much of the credit for the "Golden Age of Islam" should go to these pre-Islamic civilizations whose achievements were forcibly appropriated by the Arabs under their "Islamic" conquest.

Perhaps Indian author Vishal Mangalwadi's example of the mathematical theory behind the mechanical clock would illustrate the flow of ideas well. He wrote (I'm going my memory here, so I don't have his exact dates) that an Indian mathematician came up with the theory for a mechanical clock in the early 11th century, but didn't try to build one; 50 years later middle eastern Muslim scholars were debating and studying…

I think you've missed Al-Jazari who's well regarded as the father of modern robotics several hundred years before Leonardo da Vinci [1]. Some historians even suggesting that some of the da-Vinci inventions were copycats and derivatives of the Al-Jazari's more than hundred of inventions but he's not properly credited by da Vinci [2].

FYI, of al-jazri most famous invention is the elephant clock [3].

[1]Ismail al-Jazari:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ismail_al-Jazari

[2]Ismail al-Jazari: The Muslim inventor who may have inspired Leonardo da Vinci:

https://www.europeana.eu/en/blog/ismail-al-jazari-the-muslim...

[3]al-Jazari's Clocks: Perhaps the Earliest Programmable Analog Computers:

https://www.historyofinformation.com/detail.php?entryid=2341

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My strong contention is that much of the credit for the "Golden Age of Islam" should go to these pre-Islamic civilizations whose achievements were forcibly appropriated by the Arabs under their "Islamic" conquest.

To be honest it's not your "strong contention" but rather your ignorant or in denial contention, but I think you probably is the latter. In Arabic the word kafir is not translated to the infidel as made popular by the western media but literally means the "those who are in denial" or "those who cover up". Why not you provide and share your proper references of your case for not overly crediting the Arab and muslim co…

You seemed to have popped out of the proverbial woodwork and that too of a most malodorous kind.

If you want to engage in a discussion on this topic, don't hide behind anonymity, understand properly what has been written and don't use ad hominem attacks.

For your edification w.r.t. my comments; there is a lot to unpack but here are the highlights for you to research on :

a) Arabs as a Ethnic group who originated in a particular "backward" geographical area.

b) Islam as a religion/philosophy/political/social framework which originated with them. Note also that Islam is the youngest of the major abrahamic religions.

c) Conquest of neighboring "advanced" countries under the Islamic banner thus appropriating their achievements under the same. Do some research on the civilizations of these countries as they were before Islamic conquest.

d) Spread of these achievements to Europe who named it the mythical "Golden Age of Islam". Note that this also includes knowledge gained from other civilizations who were not conquered but whose knowledge was studied and spread by scholars (of various ethnicities) in the now large geographical area under Islamic rule.

The above is factual History and this is what is being pointed out.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your first part is debatable. The analogy i see is Arabs->later advancements(7th century and later) is the same as Mongols->later advancements(13th century and later). Both Arabs and Mongols were not inherently as "advanced" a civilization as the ones they conquered.

I'm not sure if you're trolling but I'll bite. Unlike Mongols, Arab and Muslim scientists are well-knwon to have numerous and extensive contributions to the scientific knowledge. A lot of the novel scientific, mathematics, and other knowledge terminology are based on the Arabic languages namely algorithm, chemistry, alkali, just to name a few [1]. For medicine alone the contributions are numerous from Al-Nafis discov…

You have not understood my point at all.

If anything, pointing to various scholars with Arabic names in a large geographical area which hosted "advanced civilizations" before their conquest by Islam only strengthens my argument.

It is the achievements of the native people which were built upon by the now larger group of people of various ethnicities which is being pointed out. Islam was a conduit for the spread of ideas and not their originator. The Arabs were as "primitive" as the Mongols after them. Only after "mixing" with other ethnicities, converting them to Islam, making Arabic official lingua franca were these countries "Arabicized".

The difference between Arabs and Mongols is that the Arabs gave themselves a specific identity i.e. Islam which they then imposed on others while the Mongols integrated themselves into the native cultures.

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