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The dark defaults of Microsoft Edge

thomask.sdf.org

341–350 of 389 posts

Re: The dark defaults of Microsoft Edge

#341
post #128
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It blows my mind how non-consensual the Windows experience has become. I wouldn't let someone with a similar understanding of consent anywhere near my drink. You are right about one thing: I refuse to purchase a Windows computer, and have been refusing for a decade.

Yep. I’m in the middle of switching from macOS back to windows because I need to do things I can’t do on macOS. I’ve had to build out a locked down windows 10 LTSC build to get anywhere near a sensible outcome for me. I think we should start a revolt in the IT sector against this shit really. I’d start one but I don’t know where to begin.

> I think we should start a revolt in the IT sector against this shit really. I’d start one but I don’t know where to begin.

Personally, or at work? Personally, the first steps are actually pretty easy: install an operating system that doesn't do this stuff. And then deal with the fallout as best you can without going back — e.g. finding replacements for software that only ran on $OTHER_OS. Source: did it decades ago. No regrets.

At work? Good luck. We have no credible professional bodies that enough workers are involved in for them to have much relevance, and employers that actually have any kind of values relevant to this discussion are vanishingly rare.

I think the most productive thing would be to start conversations about ethical choices in the computing professions. Start local (friends, colleagues, local meet-ups). Find existing groups with similar values, and share experiences. Then _federate_. Set up regular inter-group meet-ups. Over time, formalise a union out of the federation.

Edit: oh, and don't be an extremist. Keep your policies lean and well within the Overton window. Pick your battles carefully. Compromise isn't weakness — it's just realistic. As long as you're moving things in the right direction, it's still good.

Re: The dark defaults of Microsoft Edge

#342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why do they allow the Crap And Turds department to piss all over their work? Because Windows is a free-in-practice product and it needs/wants a revenue stream. Remember that Windows 11 can be activated with Windows 7, 8, 8.1, and 10 keys; as if that wasn't crazy enough you can straight up not activate it and you won't lose out on anything important. As for install media? You can download those for free any time. No…

macOS and Linux are even more ‘free-in-practice’

Linux is by far the most expensive OS, because I need to spend time tinkering with it before I can even pretend to get anything done.

And you know what they always say about time: Time is money.

Re: The dark defaults of Microsoft Edge

#343

I am using edge as I like the vertical tabs… the only browser that has this feature, kind of, is Safari; but safari extensions suck (if you tried to ever build one, you would understand why). It’s otherwise very user hostile but just I love the vertical tabs so much

Check out the Orion browser on Mac if you want vertical tabs. It does them well and also respects the user as an added bonus.

Re: The dark defaults of Microsoft Edge

#344
post #55

I wouldn't call it "Dark" if switching it off is so simple and right there in front of your face. "Rapacious" is a great description though, and one I would see used in the title instead. These "features" shouldn't be default, they are extremely annoying and they are numerous. Some are arguably useful. But it's not "Dark" if you can switch them off right in the main interface where you'd expect, and doing so actually…

"dark" as in the tech term "dark pattern." User-hostile defaults are generally considered a dark pattern.

Oh, I thought "Dark Pattern" meant trickery, deception, and using the browser in a fraudulent way to make users do something they didn't want to do. The features described in the article are certainly unpopular and annoying to certain types of people including myself, but they're not fraudulent. They're not deceptive. They clearly say what they do, and become disabled when you disable them, using the provided controls. That's not a dark pattern.

"Dark Pattern" does not just mean anything you don't like.

Re: The dark defaults of Microsoft Edge

#345
post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, I had no idea. Never mind Nadella, why does Microsoft's board of directors tolerate this?!

Windows doesn't matter to Microsoft now. The big sellers are Azure and Office 365 and they work on Macs. As for market share in the US, I very much doubt it's that high really. There are huge unimaginable swathes of windows boxes which won't show up in GlobalStats at all. I know a company with 50,000 desktops that can only visit a web site on an internal network for example. Those sorts of installations are everywher…

But this is a terrible attitude to have.

I already see this situation with Google, where non-technical folks will push back on choosing Google products even if they are the only credible player because of the perception that Google cancels everything and they don't want to be caught out.

Microsoft is playing with fire if they think that screwing with their customers computers will have no repercussions with other products.

Re: The dark defaults of Microsoft Edge

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

macOS and Linux are even more ‘free-in-practice’

macOS is free only when you bought Apple's computer hardware which comes at some serious markups. Unlike WIndows and Linux I can't legally downloads it and install it on the PC hardware I already own. That's like saying the SW ruining on your car's entertainment unit is free. Sure, that SW didn't cost you anything extra, but you paid for it through the car's purchase price.

Same goes for Windows tho. You need to work to get rid of the windows install in the PC.

Re: The dark defaults of Microsoft Edge

#347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

macOS and Linux are even more ‘free-in-practice’

Linux is by far the most expensive OS, because I need to spend time tinkering with it before I can even pretend to get anything done. And you know what they always say about time: Time is money.

This is changing goal posts. In windows you need to spend time to work past ads, annoyances, shit not working as well. If you don’t you get bombarded with ads in which case you either run the risk of spending money buying garbage advertised or constantly need to expend energy to not be distracted.

Re: The dark defaults of Microsoft Edge

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

macOS is free only when you bought Apple's computer hardware which comes at some serious markups. Unlike WIndows and Linux I can't legally downloads it and install it on the PC hardware I already own. That's like saying the SW ruining on your car's entertainment unit is free. Sure, that SW didn't cost you anything extra, but you paid for it through the car's purchase price.

Same goes for Windows tho. You need to work to get rid of the windows install in the PC.

That makes no logical sense unless you're trolling or never used a computer in your life

Re: The dark defaults of Microsoft Edge

#349
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. I’m in the middle of switching from macOS back to windows because I need to do things I can’t do on macOS. I’ve had to build out a locked down windows 10 LTSC build to get anywhere near a sensible outcome for me. I think we should start a revolt in the IT sector against this shit really. I’d start one but I don’t know where to begin.

> I think we should start a revolt in the IT sector against this shit really. I’d start one but I don’t know where to begin. Personally, or at work? Personally, the first steps are actually pretty easy: install an operating system that doesn't do this stuff. And then deal with the fallout as best you can without going back — e.g. finding replacements for software that only ran on $OTHER_OS. Source: did it decades ago…

I’d more expect the revolt to be along the lines of calling Microsoft out for being a dick. More an intervention than a revolt.

Re: The dark defaults of Microsoft Edge

#350

Yes. In a lot of ways Edge is a better Chrome that doesn't force you to make your Browser Syncing account the same as your default Google Account. But they keep adding invasive features without asking. There's supposed to be a setting for Discover but it's not actually there.

Yeah, it used to be that way until Microsoft noticed this good idea of browser syncing accounts… So now it goes in the same direction: https://imgur.com/a/wLcljDK
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