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More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

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Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#411

Post by JumpCrisscross »

azinman2 wrote: post #40
pclmulqdq wrote: post #26

College seems to have ~3 uses from students' perspectives: 1. A trade school for technical professionals who actually need specialist education (scientists, engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc.) 2. A finishing school for the elite 3. A blood sports arena for the brilliant to complete for professorships (almost all of whom will lose and be saddled with 6 figures of debt and 7 figures of opportunity cost) A lot of people…

It also grows the intellectual souls, exposing people to far more depth of thought. It also builds professional networks. If a person is smart enough to receive it, more education is almost always good. Of course money is a factor, and schools have gotten insanely expensive. I’m glad to hear that more people are finding alternative routes - it shouldn’t be that everyone needs college because quite frankly many career…

> more education is almost always good

There is a lot of nonsense credentialing in America. My most rewarding liberal arts classes in college were electives. Scratch that: the only liberal arts classes I took that had merit were electives.

The others’ reading lists were fun. But the discussion, assignments and evaluation stupid to the point that I spent years thinking up clever quips to the absurdity of it all.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#412

Post by pdntspa »

Larrikin wrote: post #400
bumby wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it’s like basic math Did you continue to read it? Because it covers other topics. Without using the internet, can you name the eligibility requirements of the Gov. of Kentucky? How about five county officers and their principle duties? I think your initial response belies a deeper problem we struggle with. Our attention span has shortened and social media has biased us towards more course interactions.

I would say that knowing eligibility requirements of the governor of Kentucky without using the internet is useless information to everyone that doesn't work in the Kentucky election office. The useful skill is being able to find the information on the Internet if you want to run for governor of Kentucky. If you grow up in Kentucky learning it once in seventh grade is sufficient so you know it's a possibility, but wi…

Why do we need this stupid metric of "will I ever use this"? That is a recipe for ignorance. You will never be able to handle novel circumstances if you limit your knowledge to shit you think you will need.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#413

Post by credit_guy »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #26

College seems to have ~3 uses from students' perspectives: 1. A trade school for technical professionals who actually need specialist education (scientists, engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc.) 2. A finishing school for the elite 3. A blood sports arena for the brilliant to complete for professorships (almost all of whom will lose and be saddled with 6 figures of debt and 7 figures of opportunity cost) A lot of people…

0. A four-year recruitment and placement agency.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#414

Post by wolverine876 »

pacaro wrote: post #119
xyzelement wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re second point, I mean something else. 200 years ago I had to go to university because why? That's where the books and smart people were concentrated. So I would pay a lot of money and physically relocate myself to access those books and people. Now? I can study online, I can read, I can converse with super bright people of my chosing without the friction and limits of doing that in a college environment.

There's a two edged sword here, both for the university student and the independent learner Learning in a structured environment provides access to the orthodox in the field of study. This can be very valuable to limit unnecessary exploration of blind avenues (there is of course such a thing as necessary exploration of blind avenues) For those who progress through the academy, the risk is that they become narrow thin…

> Learning in a structured environment provides access to the orthodox in the field of study.

That's a trope of critics, but not what happens. Have you studied in college? They (almost always) cover a very wide range - much wider than you will discover on your own - and the focus is to teach you to think critically and be able to examine them yourself. They are not there to teach you information, or that is secondary (at least in social sciences and humanities).

Also, you omit other enormous benefits, including personal tutorial - including guidance, feedback, etc. - from leading experts and PhD students, not to mention a room full of peers studying the same things.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#415

Post by [deleted] »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #26

College seems to have ~3 uses from students' perspectives: 1. A trade school for technical professionals who actually need specialist education (scientists, engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc.) 2. A finishing school for the elite 3. A blood sports arena for the brilliant to complete for professorships (almost all of whom will lose and be saddled with 6 figures of debt and 7 figures of opportunity cost) A lot of people…

[deleted]

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#416

Post by OJFord »

zinckiwi wrote: post #409
OJFord wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People sometimes talk about it in terms of exams in the sense that they'd achieve a first overall if that exam was 'it', or that it brings their average up etc. - but strictly speaking you can only achieve first class (or any other) honours for the degree as a whole. It's commonly (but not necessarily) >70% overall. Equivalent to achieving some high GPA range.

American translation: graduating with anything other than a 4.0 or a 1.0 is wasted.

Or rather between them, yes. (Or a bit lower than 4.0, that's perfect right? Or do you not have to get full marks on every exam to achieve that?)

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#417

Post by [deleted] »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #26

College seems to have ~3 uses from students' perspectives: 1. A trade school for technical professionals who actually need specialist education (scientists, engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc.) 2. A finishing school for the elite 3. A blood sports arena for the brilliant to complete for professorships (almost all of whom will lose and be saddled with 6 figures of debt and 7 figures of opportunity cost) A lot of people…

[deleted]

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#418

Post by yonaguska »

dahfizz wrote: post #392
syzarian wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Communism does not lead to deaths and genocide. Concentrated, uncontested power does.

And communism leads to concentrated, uncontested power. The dictatorship of the proletariat will never dissolve itself once it gets absolute power.

Or at least it requires it in order to function. Not sure which comes first.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#419

Post by cperciva »

Balgair wrote: post #351
OJFord wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, as cousin Melchior put it, 'anything other than a first or a fourth is wasted'. ( Brideshead Revisited - Evelyn Waugh. Not sure how internationally read it is, but a worthwhile classic. British degrees are classified from firsts to thirds (via upper and lower second class honours) - but the story is (initially) set at Oxford, which at the time awarded fourths.)

Thanks for the reccomendation! I am a bit confused though. Is 'a first' the top score on an exam or like a suma cum laude ? Free link to the book here: https://gutenberg.ca/ebooks/waughe-bridesheadrevisited1945/w...

"First" means "first class honours" aka. the highest designation of degree. The US equivalent is summa cum laude, yes.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#420

Post by pasttense01 »

tempsy wrote: post #70
gloryjulio wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, basically lots of low tier unis are not worth wasting ur money on. Ironically, I learnt the most important skills(learn how to learn effectively, prioritization etc) only after I started to work in a company where I was getting coached. I would have been far more efficient if go back to school now.

i wouldn’t say that. i just think if you go to a lower ranked school your path to career success more so relies on getting a technical degree but yes you shouldn’t be studying liberal arts at a no name school.

While these no name schools don't have a reputation nationally, they do have a reputation locally. So if you are looking for a job within a 50 to 100 mile (or whatever) radius of this university it will help in getting a job.
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