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Kenji López-Alt spent 5 months studying Chicago thin-crust pizza

nytimes.com

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Re: Kenji López-Alt spent 5 months studying Chicago thin-crust pizza

#71

Post by chrsstrm »

AlbertCory wrote: post #26

Native Chicagoan here. Not totally a snob, but getting there. I didn't usually encounter really crispy crust growing up, but I'm not saying it's wrong. He does a lot of things here I've never tried, but now I'm going to. I had an Ooni, and after 5 or 6 meh attempts, I sold it. I also exited the r/ooni subreddit. I'm also out of love with the Neapolitan style baked at 700F+. Come at me. I think a pizza steel preheated…

I use the oven method with a pizza steel exclusively but the recent spike in natural gas costs in SoCal had me cut back considerably on making pizzas. I was looking into alternatives like the Ooni and the Breville countertop pizza oven, but the reviews on the Breville aren’t inspiring. Kenji’s multi-day method for making his thin crusts seems absurd but after testing same-day and “cured” crusts, it’s worth it.

Re: Kenji López-Alt spent 5 months studying Chicago thin-crust pizza

#72

Post by BuckRogers »

Kon-Peki wrote: post #55
tptacek wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kenji's Detroit-style is my go-to home pizza: https://www.seriouseats.com/detroit-style-pizza-recipe (It would be this Chicago recipe, but if you live in Chicago you're never more than 20 minutes out from someone delivering a better version of it than you can make).

That article mentions Pequod’s as a Chicago deep dish with the kind of burnt cheese crustiness of Detroit style. I absolutely agree. If you visit Chicago and think you are supposed to try deep dish to complete your tourist checklist, go over there - you will not be disappointed.

I live in Chicago and went to that place once. I actually wasn’t very impressed. If I have to eat deep dish, I will go to Lou Malnati‘s. Otherwise give me a good Midwest style thin crust. Something similar to D’Agostino‘s.

Re: Kenji López-Alt spent 5 months studying Chicago thin-crust pizza

#74

Post by MegaDeKay »

throw0101b wrote: post #9

If you want to explore food science, it's hard to go wrong with the OG author, Harold McGee: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_McGee * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Food_and_Cooking The fortieth anniversary of his On Food is coming up in 2024.

Can't argue that Harold is the OG. It would be nice if he'd release a new edition of On Food and Cooking though. But as I understand it, it still holds up really well after all this time.

Alton Brown is certainly another name I'd add to the mix. Good Eats was brilliant, and his I'm Only Here For The Food / More Food books are really good.

Re: Kenji López-Alt spent 5 months studying Chicago thin-crust pizza

#75

Post by Ductapemaster »

pcl wrote: post #67
AlbertCory wrote: post #26

Native Chicagoan here. Not totally a snob, but getting there. I didn't usually encounter really crispy crust growing up, but I'm not saying it's wrong. He does a lot of things here I've never tried, but now I'm going to. I had an Ooni, and after 5 or 6 meh attempts, I sold it. I also exited the r/ooni subreddit. I'm also out of love with the Neapolitan style baked at 700F+. Come at me. I think a pizza steel preheated…

A couple years ago, when I was on a pizza kick, the thing that worked best for me was to start cooking the dough on the stovetop on a very hot cast iron skillet. I would cook it long enough for the dough to start to change color and bubble a bit (45-60 seconds), and then make sure it was releasing from the pan. Then, I would sprinkle on oil, tomato sauce and toppings and move it from the skillet to the preheated ston…

Kenji has a recipe [0] for this method but using a tortilla instead of pizza dough. At first glance I was skeptical it would be any good, but it's turned out to be a fantastic low-effort way to make a "pizza" when you are craving it!

[0] https://www.seriouseats.com/extra-crispy-bar-style-tortilla-...

Re: Kenji López-Alt spent 5 months studying Chicago thin-crust pizza

#76

Post by toomanyrichies »

BuckRogers wrote: post #72
Kon-Peki wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That article mentions Pequod’s as a Chicago deep dish with the kind of burnt cheese crustiness of Detroit style. I absolutely agree. If you visit Chicago and think you are supposed to try deep dish to complete your tourist checklist, go over there - you will not be disappointed.

I live in Chicago and went to that place once. I actually wasn’t very impressed. If I have to eat deep dish, I will go to Lou Malnati‘s. Otherwise give me a good Midwest style thin crust. Something similar to D’Agostino‘s.

Lou Malnati's was my go-to for the year I lived in Chicago. God I miss that place.

Re: Kenji López-Alt spent 5 months studying Chicago thin-crust pizza

#77

Post by kenjilopezalt »

chitowneats wrote: post #58
antihero wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best way to make pizza better is to drink more. I’ve eaten some fantastic artisan sourdough wonders here in London but nothing compares to being wasted as fuck and finding the one place that’s open at some ungodly hour after a heavy night of eating fuck all and getting your teeth into some greasy monster made of the worst possible ingredients.

Well put. That being said, the Chicago version is still better. NYC pizza is a bad joke. As long as you're only paying $1 it's not that bad for the price. That price point and the places that offered it are going extinct unfortunately. The "slice" is dead. Imagine having to fold your "pizza" because it's just a nasty mess of sauce and cheese.

It’s ironic because those $1 slice places that popped up in the mid 2000s are what actually destroyed decent NY slices which couldn’t compete because transplants and students would rather pay $1 for garbage than $1.50-$2.50 for a true classic NY slice. Very few of them remain now.

Instead there’s this divide with crappy $1 joints (that are now a little more expensive) and good $4-5 slice joints that had to differentiate themselves. The workingman’s NY slice might not have long to live.

All that said, it sounds like maybe you’ve not had good NY pizza the way you’re describing it. The sauce and cheese should not be messy, it should be minimal. The fold is so you can walk down the street while eating it in one hand.

Re: Kenji López-Alt spent 5 months studying Chicago thin-crust pizza

#78

Post by kenjilopezalt »

joshu wrote: post #57
AlbertCory wrote: post #26

Native Chicagoan here. Not totally a snob, but getting there. I didn't usually encounter really crispy crust growing up, but I'm not saying it's wrong. He does a lot of things here I've never tried, but now I'm going to. I had an Ooni, and after 5 or 6 meh attempts, I sold it. I also exited the r/ooni subreddit. I'm also out of love with the Neapolitan style baked at 700F+. Come at me. I think a pizza steel preheated…

pizza ovens rely on a chain of different skills that all must be done well or the pizza comes out poorly. correctly making the dough, correctly topping it, getting it to slide off the peel correctly, putting it in the right place in the oven, rotating it correctly, and probably several things i'm missing. it leads to an enormous amount of frustration; i haven't gotten something i would consider "good" even once yet.

This thin crust recipe is time consuming but actually solves a lot of those problems. Rolling witb a pin and letting it dry out overnight actually makes it really easy to slide off the peel.

Re: Kenji López-Alt spent 5 months studying Chicago thin-crust pizza

#79

Post by 331c8c71 »

How does Chicago thin-crust pizza compare to restaraunt-made pizza found in Italy and (to certain extent) elsewhere in Europe?

The photos in the article look just like normal pizza to me (maybe the topping looks a bit drier than usual).

EDIT: I don't see mozzarella on the photos. Not having it is not uncommon, for instance in France, but it's a must in an Italian restaraunt except for pizzas that don't have mozzarella by design e.g. marinara.

Re: Kenji López-Alt spent 5 months studying Chicago thin-crust pizza

#80

Post by kenjilopezalt »

codemac wrote: post #13

It upsets me this is called "Chicago" when clearly it came from further east - these "working class pizza taverns" being common across Indiana, Ohio, and PA as well. There are plenty of examples of these types of "no I started thin crust and square cut" pizza tavern places everywhere. And even worse is that I am no historian and I'm probably wrong. But my direct experience contradicts a lot of the Chicago-washing of…

I actually talked with Jim Ellison who is a historian of Columbus style pizza. He also confirmed the style started in taverns on the south side of Chicago and spread from there, including to Columbus where it took on its own regional differences (particularly swapping sausage for a ton of pepperoni, and using a different style of pan).

We had to cut some bits from the article for length.

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