Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 730 posts

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#31

Post by bluedino »

Mc91 wrote: post #9

I have been programming for a Fortune 500 company for four years. Not long ago, I applied for a job at another Fortune 500 company. HR really had only question for me, they saw on my resume I did not have a college degree listed, and did I have one? I said I went through most of college towards a Bachelors in Computer Science but dropped out before graduation. I did not get the job, although I don't know if that's wh…

A job opened on my team where I am working at as contractor. My boss told me to apply for the job.

I got an email back right away from HR stating that I didn't meet the requirements of having a degree.

Joke's on them, I already work there.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#32

Post by pclmulqdq »

hotpotamus wrote: post #23
lvl102 wrote: post #17

Being a plumber, for example, is far more lucrative for most people. Military, police, then lawyer route is also very lucrative.

One of those is not like the other in that it requires extensive college. It also happens to be the one that pays more than the others.

Being a high-end plumber doesn't take much college.

I joke, but most lawyers actually don't make a ton of money. Like programming, the profession is very bimodal. By the time you get out of law school, unless that law school is a big name like Harvard or you get a good clerkship or associate job, you will be heading for a career that tops out at $200k/year if you don't burn out in the mean time.

Plumbing, electrical work, and other trade work is weirdly lucrative and doesn't come with nearly as much "ladder climbing" as a legal career. Also, a mid-career trade worker can specialize (taking only very lucrative and weird jobs) or start to manage other tradespeople. Plumbing and the other trades are a lot like software engineering in that sense, and the reward for being the plumber who knows how to deal with water pumps in high-rises is similar to the reward for being the software engineer who can program GPUs (or some other niche skill). For example, I happen to have met one of the people who does the HVAC in Google NYC, and he makes the same amount as a senior SWE at Google.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#34

Post by blockwriter »

hotpotamus wrote: post #23
lvl102 wrote: post #17

Being a plumber, for example, is far more lucrative for most people. Military, police, then lawyer route is also very lucrative.

One of those is not like the other in that it requires extensive college. It also happens to be the one that pays more than the others.

I think he means enlisting in the military or a police force, accruing that job experience, rather than getting an undergrad degree, and then going straight to law school.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#35

Post by 71a54xd »

Mc91 wrote: post #9

I have been programming for a Fortune 500 company for four years. Not long ago, I applied for a job at another Fortune 500 company. HR really had only question for me, they saw on my resume I did not have a college degree listed, and did I have one? I said I went through most of college towards a Bachelors in Computer Science but dropped out before graduation. I did not get the job, although I don't know if that's wh…

Hate to say it, but this is why I'm incredibly glad I didn't drop out of college even though I had a solid gig ready to go.

I knew I wasn't cut out for being an perpetual founder and that I'd definitely encounter greater challenges not having a degree than the challenges standing between me and my degree at that point in time. ($7k and 1 year of my life with classes I wasn't sure I could stomach).

Wish you the best, but for those considering this always assume you maybe aren't the best - think about what comforts you're giving up. I will say, anyone you talk to on the college / dropout risk/reward problem are highly biased. Dropouts who have achieved success are susceptible to survivorship bias and will vehemently tell you college isn't necessary. PHD's will always espouse college as the only route because they burned their entire 20's in college.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#36

Post by ibn_khaldun »

College stinks, but what will happen to “blue collar” young people who do not make it into the “white collar” apprenticeship pipeline, who would have previously achieved so through college. Oh yeah, well they can just choose college. But as this apprenticeship thing becomes more popular, what will the competition be like?

Young people! The labor market is turtling…what are we going to do?

Edit: I’m choosing a more tasteful description for the American labor market. Thank you for expressing your distaste with the original one.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#37

Post by [deleted] »

mnd999 wrote: post #8
danielvaughn wrote: post #2

As someone who racked up nearly $80K in debt going to art school, I think they're making the right choice (mostly). In some cases it really makes sense to go to college, but it's a terrible model for many skills.

Did you have fun though? Because imho, that’s part of the point.

[deleted]

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#38

Post by killjoywashere »

newhotelowner wrote: post #4

My daughter got rejected from one of the UC. They received 130+k application for 6k openings.

Yeah, the UC's application system is a bit ... disingenuous is the wrong word, but it's a win-win for applicants and colleges: all the applicant has to do is check all the boxes and pay the not-terrible application fees and bam, they've applied to all the schools. This pretty much forces all the students to apply to most, if not all, of the campuses. Which gives every UC campus the maximum possible applicant pool.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#39

Post by InvaderFizz »

Mc91 wrote: post #9

I have been programming for a Fortune 500 company for four years. Not long ago, I applied for a job at another Fortune 500 company. HR really had only question for me, they saw on my resume I did not have a college degree listed, and did I have one? I said I went through most of college towards a Bachelors in Computer Science but dropped out before graduation. I did not get the job, although I don't know if that's wh…

I got my degree at 35 because of this. Not that I actually learned much of anything in the program, I was there purely for the paper.

This is where schools like WGU excel for those of us just seeking credentials for what we already know. The terms are six months, you can do as many courses as you want during that six months. Over half the courses are just a final exam. You take a pre-test on day one of the course. If you score high enough, you can take the final exam the same day and be done with the course. If one were very determined and knew most of the material going in, you could complete a BS in six months for a total cost of under $4000.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#40

Post by azinman2 »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #26

College seems to have ~3 uses from students' perspectives: 1. A trade school for technical professionals who actually need specialist education (scientists, engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc.) 2. A finishing school for the elite 3. A blood sports arena for the brilliant to complete for professorships (almost all of whom will lose and be saddled with 6 figures of debt and 7 figures of opportunity cost) A lot of people…

It also grows the intellectual souls, exposing people to far more depth of thought. It also builds professional networks. If a person is smart enough to receive it, more education is almost always good.

Of course money is a factor, and schools have gotten insanely expensive. I’m glad to hear that more people are finding alternative routes - it shouldn’t be that everyone needs college because quite frankly many career paths don’t require it and many aren’t smart enough for it (and thus the debt will be crushing).

But I wouldn’t dismiss its value in being taught how to think. I wish there was a bigger focus in physics, math, and philosophy for those who didn’t know what to do - learn one of those and you can do just about anything.

Post reply on HN