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New React docs pretend SPAs don't exist anymore

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Re: New React docs pretend SPAs don't exist anymore

#81

Post by devwastaken »

lastangryman wrote: post #78

Obligatory "front end is a mess" comment. I taught at a bootcamp for 6 months, it was a great experience but when we moved on to react after vanilla JS the amount of incidental complexity was a huge step up, even with create-react-app. Now they push people towards adding a server side framework at the same time, right off the bat? I think there's a real danger with new engineers entering the industry that they have n…

React is for Facebook problems. Facebook is not concerned with "new engineers" at this time, nor have they ever really. Big tech contributes the least to education and pays little in taxes.

Re: New React docs pretend SPAs don't exist anymore

#82

Post by alex_sf »

throw_m239339 wrote: post #11

Starting a "new react project" should be basically creating an HTML file, and adding a script tag linking to React the JS library. Why are these developers always trying to obfuscate everything with tons and tons of layers of indirection all the time? You don't need to "bundle" anything and certainly not use some server just to add Javascript to a page (unless it's a matter of CSP of course) and you should certainly…

Because they _need_ cool tool A, utility library B, theme C, and then helper library D because B doesn't work quite right.

Re: New React docs pretend SPAs don't exist anymore

#83

Post by youngtaff »

tshaddox wrote: post #60
88913527 wrote: post #22

I don't understand the pivot back to SSR. Tearing down and standing up the entire DOM and page memory between navigations is just unnecessary work. Little things like maintaining scroll position in the page's navigation bar meaningfully improve usability and are only achievable with a SPA-based approach. This doesn't discount the challenges of building SPAs: bundle sizes, performance, etc. can be concerns if not mana…

I think you might be using the term “SSR” in a non-standard way. In the context of JavaScript apps, SSR refers to an initial pre-rendering of the HTML of a SPA page on the first browser page load. Subsequent navigations in that same browser tab would render on the client just like an SPA that doesn’t have SSR. You might be talking about what the JavaScript community has started to call “MPA,” which doesn’t seem to ha…

SSR isn’t actually rendering though… it’s generation of markup just like PHP does… sure sometimes it contains data to rehydrate the page just like early .Net components used to

The various JS frameworks seem to have taken a concept that was common and tried to rebrand it which just adds more confusion

Re: New React docs pretend SPAs don't exist anymore

#84

Post by say_it_as_it_is »

>Next.js is a great framework, and its rise in popularity is due in a large part to the return of SEO optimization via Server-Side-Rendering (SSR) within the collective developer conscience.

I stopped reading here because the article may have been made by ChatGPT

Re: New React docs pretend SPAs don't exist anymore

#85

Post by rk06 »

throw_m239339 wrote: post #11

Starting a "new react project" should be basically creating an HTML file, and adding a script tag linking to React the JS library. Why are these developers always trying to obfuscate everything with tons and tons of layers of indirection all the time? You don't need to "bundle" anything and certainly not use some server just to add Javascript to a page (unless it's a matter of CSP of course) and you should certainly…

Because react is not developed with that usecase in mind. And it is not recommended for production anyway.

If you really need to use html with script tag, go with Vue/alpine

Re: New React docs pretend SPAs don't exist anymore

#86

Post by omnimus »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #79
omnimus wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unpoly dev is german nobody cares about abd doesnt go on podcasts vs htmx author is american that does marketing well. Same goes for alpine js where the author is “famous” dev. Pretty typical with open source projects tbh. Many of them win thanks to marketing more than anything else.

Don't why you have been downvoted, while there are famous dev outside of the US, american identity and marketting does sell better than the german one.

Its also easier to be comfortable on a english podcast when you are a native speaker.

Plus i think US devs understand how important marketing is more than anybody else.

Re: New React docs pretend SPAs don't exist anymore

#87

Post by MartijnHols »

andrewstuart wrote: post #76

I don’t want server side react. It’s disappointing to me they’ve gone so hard on server side. It feels like Facebook use it server side so they’ve lost interest in being purely client side.

For most React apps, SSG is by far the best option. With Next.js it’s easy to do and takes less effort than a client-side app with a separate backend. SSR React was a PITA initially 2-3 years ago, but it, libraries and the frameworks have come a long way.

Re: New React docs pretend SPAs don't exist anymore

#88

Post by 6510 »

jameshart wrote: post #66
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #35

So after graphql, micro services, nosql and serverless, the SPA + "libs not framework" crowd join the "woooops!" club. Ignoring the noise is really becoming a key skill to survive as a programmer.

Being too eager to dismiss a technology and move on is just as much of a bandwagon-jump as being too eager to adopt it in the first place. The Gartner Hype Cycle[1] has both a 'peak of inflated expectations' and a 'trough of disillusionment'. The thing a lot of tech cynics fail to spot is that both of them are wrong about the long term value of the technology . The 'plateau of productivity' awaits, where graphql, nos…

> The 'plateau of productivity' awaits, where graphql, nosql, serverless, and SPAs will join every other technology, finding productive use in their appropriate niche.

I keep thinking of the tower of babel.

> God was concerned that humans had blasphemed by building the tower to avoid a second flood so God brought into existence multiple languages. Thus, humans were divided into linguistic groups, unable to understand one another.

see? Now you can be wrong with the rest of us :)

Re: New React docs pretend SPAs don't exist anymore

#89

Post by MartijnHols »

alex_sf wrote: post #80
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #35

So after graphql, micro services, nosql and serverless, the SPA + "libs not framework" crowd join the "woooops!" club. Ignoring the noise is really becoming a key skill to survive as a programmer.

Honestly, the signal is just to avoid whatever full-time JS developers are getting into.

The signal is to avoid new technologies with marketing engines behind them for at least a few years. And anyone who is gullible enough to believe them, which are more likely the new people learning to code and yelling about the new shiny libraries they found than full time developers that are actually productive rather than bored.

Re: New React docs pretend SPAs don't exist anymore

#90

Post by NerdiOrg »

I think the author is mistaken. You can build a PWA, SPA in Next.js and it's even easier than not using it.

I feel like the author is just confused that they're not specifically focusing on SPA because whether anyone wants to admit or not, enterprise companies aren't asking for SPA, or mobile apps, they're asking for headless, static websites. It makes sense that React would respond to those market demands.

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