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DDRamDisk: RAM disk, a disk based on RAM memory chips

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Re: DDRamDisk: RAM disk, a disk based on RAM memory chips

#111

RAM disks are an old and well-established concept. I'm not clear on what this 'product' adds to them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAM_drive

being cheap and available is a rather good addition.

I'd definitely want the 256 gib version for my OS, if it was in stock.

Since they are apparently so common, can you point me to a solution that gives me 7 GiB/s transfer rate for around that same price?

Re: DDRamDisk: RAM disk, a disk based on RAM memory chips

#112

Not a new concept. Has been done a few times before. The use cases are very small, and getting smaller these days as motherboards accept larger and larger memory modules. https://www.newegg.ca/gigabyte-gc-ramdisk-others/p/N82E16815...

I still have 2x 5.25" DDR1 based RAM disks, was somewhat popular before SSD's came onto the scene

Re: DDRamDisk: RAM disk, a disk based on RAM memory chips

#113
in 1999 i was working for an NYC fintech startup (first after-hours ECN to publish quotes on SuperSOES) and around then we paid an absolute fortune for a battery-backed-up giant RAM disk. i don't remember how much RAM it had, but it was a ruddy big rackmounted box with 2x car batteries and a lot of soldered RAM in it, and it allowed us to trade-match much faster than our competitors at the time. the RAM was presented as regular block devices to Linux, so we could do what we wanted with it. that RAM disk was our main competitive advantage, right until the CEO decided to do crimes and the whole thing was bought up by E*Trade, staff got screwed over, and it all died a big messy death after 9/11. loved that RAM disk tho.

Re: DDRamDisk: RAM disk, a disk based on RAM memory chips

#114
This seems like a good idea if the cost could be kept low.

Which is only possible if volume is high.

Which is unlikely.

Prices aren't listed. I'd like to see prices. I've always wanted to be able to use older RAM as swap. Or an array of older SD cards as an SSD. Or similar. Never was there a big enough market to make sane products, though.

Re: DDRamDisk: RAM disk, a disk based on RAM memory chips

#115

When doing my PhD around 2004 I was running simulations with Fortran programs to do optimizations. A genetic algorithm would call the Fortran program and change the parameters by creating input files and reading output files. I found out that disk access was the bottleneck of the optimisations. So I used a RAM disk software to create a disk-drive in RAM. It increased the simulation speed by orders of magnitude.

Yep, a few years ago we were doing stuff that would hammer ten or twenty GB of design files for some hours. Tried moving it over to RAM-disk - from the server's 128 GB RAM - and it ran a few times faster.

But in general it was not worth the setup hassle and the possible RAM-starving of other server jobs, stuff was generally not urgent.

Re: DDRamDisk: RAM disk, a disk based on RAM memory chips

#116

Interesting design. They use FPGAs to emulate NAND storage with DDR, then use a standard NAND SSD controller. It doesn't perform any better than fast NVMe SSDs for larger, sequential operations. However, it appears to be an order of magnitude faster for the random 1K read/write operations. It also has infinite durability relative to an SSD, though obviously your data isn't infinitely durable during a power outage sce…

Would be interesting if there would be a case for slapping an SSD on the back of it and giving it just enough capacitor power to dump whatever is on RAM to the SSD once a power-out happens (and restore upon boot). SSD writes would be super low (rarely) and only happen during power issues or shutting it all down.

I can see this being great as an ephemeral OS disk. I would selectively sync the changes I want to keep, either to a local SSD, or even over a 10Gbps network, which would update the static image used for booting. It's kind of great knowing that a reboot would give you a fresh system, and at these speeds the system would _fly_.

Re: DDRamDisk: RAM disk, a disk based on RAM memory chips

#117

in 1999 i was working for an NYC fintech startup (first after-hours ECN to publish quotes on SuperSOES) and around then we paid an absolute fortune for a battery-backed-up giant RAM disk. i don't remember how much RAM it had, but it was a ruddy big rackmounted box with 2x car batteries and a lot of soldered RAM in it, and it allowed us to trade-match much faster than our competitors at the time. the RAM was presented…

In 2013 I was working for a mobile game company that dropped a metric shitload of cash in Big Blue's lap for an enormous "RAM SAN".

IIRC it was a 1 or 2U unit with a few small lithium ion batteries inside. Phenomenal unit. It could have been configured as a block device but we used it for hot data in an auto-tiering setup with SSDs and rust in the other tiers.

Loved it to bits. No matter what we threw at it, the network was always our bottleneck.

Re: DDRamDisk: RAM disk, a disk based on RAM memory chips

#118
post #111

RAM disks are an old and well-established concept. I'm not clear on what this 'product' adds to them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAM_drive

being cheap and available is a rather good addition. I'd definitely want the 256 gib version for my OS, if it was in stock. Since they are apparently so common, can you point me to a solution that gives me 7 GiB/s transfer rate for around that same price?

I think a tmpfs on Linux on some fast DDR5 RAM may get you close, it may even be faster but I'm not totally sure!

Of course, getting 256GB of DDR5 or even DDR4 RAM is going to cost quite a lot, and most motherboards probably won't have enough slots for this! Also it would probably be much more expensive!

Re: DDRamDisk: RAM disk, a disk based on RAM memory chips

#119
post #82
post #76

If only Intel hadn't cancelled Pmem. Insanely high speed, density to match NVMe, could have changed the way we use computers (or at least powered some killer DB servers)

Are you talking about Optane/3D-XPoint? The physics behind it seemed insane to me, amazing that they got it to work. I heard that the NVME protocol was originally designed with it in mind

The death knell for Optane was caused by the fact that the persistent memory had errors rates that required error correction. Lower error rates than flash, but greater rates than DRAM. This meant that remapping was required (wear leveling is a factor), which meant that the controllers couldn't run in the narrow window of time required to hit DRAM level latencies. With enough development they could have worked this out, but as Intel is addicted to monopoly level margins on CPUs, they couldn't justify the expenditures on developing a memory technology that would take a decade+ to mature.

There is MRAM available with DDR3 interfaces, albeit with a relatively small page size compared to standard DRAM. It's a bit expensive. We'll see if ReRAM ever gets commercialized. There are lots of persistent memory technologies possible, but it takes a lot of money to commercialize such a bleeding edge product. Especially when DRAM keeps getting faster (in bandwidth, not latency) interfaces every few years.

Re: DDRamDisk: RAM disk, a disk based on RAM memory chips

#120

in 1999 i was working for an NYC fintech startup (first after-hours ECN to publish quotes on SuperSOES) and around then we paid an absolute fortune for a battery-backed-up giant RAM disk. i don't remember how much RAM it had, but it was a ruddy big rackmounted box with 2x car batteries and a lot of soldered RAM in it, and it allowed us to trade-match much faster than our competitors at the time. the RAM was presented…

The Solace appliances use a card called the Assured Delivery Blade that basically consists of 4GB of DRAM attached to an FPGA on a PCIe card with a pair of 10Gbps SFP+ interfaces and a bunch of super capacitors to keep things running when the power fails. On power failure, the FPGA dumps the DRAM into flash to ensure persistence. The whole thing enables the persistent messaging feature to acknowledge reliable delivery of persistent messages in a few microseconds. The first version was developed back in 2008, well ahead of NVMe and other low latency storage mediums.
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