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Give babies peanut butter to cut peanut allergies, study says

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Re: Give babies peanut butter to cut peanut allergies, study says

#311
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's absolutely not backwards. But it is. The best population-level guidance (now) is early exposure. We told people to do the opposite. The result was a lot more kids with anaphylaxis-level allergy. (I don't know if this increased the total number of people who died. That'd be an interesting question, but given that we reversed the guidance, I assume from a public health perspective people now believe the original…

> I think you mean that it's intuitive, but I don't think it's logical, for exactly the reason that it turns out not to be a good idea. If operating with the best model you have is intuitive and not logical, then everything in science it intuitive and not logical, so we might have to redefine your use of "logical" to be more useful. Peanut exposure caused anaphylaxis in some kids. Many kids in the world are never exp…

> If operating with the best model you have is intuitive and not logical, then everything in science it intuitive and not logical, so we might have to redefine your use of "logical" to be more useful.

Fair enough. The reason I don't like "logical" here is that it implicitly leaves out the possibility that the conclusion is wrong despite the data being correct.

>> I don't know if this increased the total number of people who died. That'd be an interesting question

> In fact, this (plus quality of life + cost of prevention/treatment) is the only measure on which the old guidance could be "exactly wrong", which hopefully gives some insight on why talking about it being "backwards" is itself wrong. It's not Thalidomide.

You're right -- it's not, like, the worst possible thing they could have said, and it wasn't like immediately fatal to kids that followed it. The sense in which I think the old recommendation was "exactly wrong" or "exactly backwards" is just that the organizations that made the old recommendation decided that doing what the old recommendation said to do (avoid peanuts altogether for the first several years) was worse than doing something that's basically the opposite (expose peanuts early).

> If you instead mean we need to better communicate uncertainty in developmental and health recommendations, I completely agree.

Yes, I think that's a good idea. (I know it has problems, too: most patients need clear, simple guidelines. But I think you can have clear, simple guidelines as well as more nuanced versions.)

I'm definitely not an expert here and I don't claim to know the answer. What I'm looking for is any introspection from the organizations involved. Something like a (blameless) postmortem. Something acknowledging "hey, it seems like this was a pretty big mis-step -- is there something we could have done better here?" Even if the conclusion was "no, we think our methodology in making recommendations is sound for [these reasons], there's just uncertainty, we got unlucky, and the risk of harm is lower than the risk of not saying anything", that would give them more credibility. Without something like that, as a parent, why would I continue trusting their recommendations? (Candidly, it doesn't help that this is just one of many examples of this from public health. See things like: eat margarine instead of butter (oops! we didn't know about trans fats.))

Re: Give babies peanut butter to cut peanut allergies, study says

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This advice was never based on science. No, it was based on common sense. If X causes problems, not doing X is generally a good idea. It turns out that in this particular scenario, common sense was wrong. But allergies weren't understood by science, so all we had to go on was common sense.

I don't see how it's common sense to avoid certain foods at a young age to avoid allergies later on. Am I missing some obvious connection? If allergies are caused by the immune system not recognizing X, probably the solution is to introduce X earlier. They had "peanut-free" lunch tables when I was in elementary school, and all I thought was people just need to stop being so sensitive. Even then, guess I was right.

Perhaps the fact that the food could literally be poison for the person eating it? And if this person has no communication skills...

At least when you're 3 and talking you can be more clear about what's going on with your body if there's a problem.

"Why give them any food at all" is a very glib reply to them. I'll let you figure out why people might avoid certain foods and not others, and why people feed small children

Re: Give babies peanut butter to cut peanut allergies, study says

#313
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how it's common sense to avoid certain foods at a young age to avoid allergies later on. Am I missing some obvious connection? If allergies are caused by the immune system not recognizing X, probably the solution is to introduce X earlier. They had "peanut-free" lunch tables when I was in elementary school, and all I thought was people just need to stop being so sensitive. Even then, guess I was right.

Perhaps the fact that the food could literally be poison for the person eating it? And if this person has no communication skills... At least when you're 3 and talking you can be more clear about what's going on with your body if there's a problem. "Why give them any food at all" is a very glib reply to them. I'll let you figure out why people might avoid certain foods and not others, and why people feed small childr…

So then I'm either underthinking or overthinking this. Inherent food allergies feel like a rare thing to me.

Re: Give babies peanut butter to cut peanut allergies, study says

#314
As a person from south Asia, one of my big culture shocks moving to west was the allergies. Its almost unheard of in South Asia (at least a decade ago). One another big factor is likely that the heavy daily use of fermented food in South Asia, which was almost complete ly absent (atleast in US)

Re: Give babies peanut butter to cut peanut allergies, study says

#315
post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how it's common sense to avoid certain foods at a young age to avoid allergies later on. Am I missing some obvious connection? If allergies are caused by the immune system not recognizing X, probably the solution is to introduce X earlier. They had "peanut-free" lunch tables when I was in elementary school, and all I thought was people just need to stop being so sensitive. Even then, guess I was right.

> They had "peanut-free" lunch tables when I was in elementary school, and all I thought was people just need to stop being so sensitive. Even then, guess I was right. I'm pretty sure that by elementary school some kids have already developed severe peanut allergies. Keeping peanuts away from someone that might go into anaphylactic shock seems the right amount of sensitivity. Per the article, the time to be "less sen…

Yeah, that's true.

Re: Give babies peanut butter to cut peanut allergies, study says

#316
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone wondering, Trader Joe's sells these in the US! They're great, and they're "real" Bamba and not a TJ's replica.

Yep. We used that with our kid and he seems to have avoided peanut allergy. It also tastes pretty good! But, it didn't stop him from developing a walnut/pecan allergy. Probably because we don't really eat either of those in our house.

Same... My daughter had tree nut allergy(worst is cashew).

Peanut I found out are technically legumes, where as pecan, almond, cashew, walnut, pistachio, etc are tree nuts.

So while we call them all "nuts", peanuts are quite different than tree nuts.

Daughter developed severe tree nut allergy(that we don't leave home without 2x EpiPen) by age 3.

Had pleanty of foods with peanut butter, but seldom tree nut exposure (outside of mixed nuts which she was too young to consume).

She can eat peanut products just fine, but we end up telling everyone all nuts allergy including peanuts... As some people don't know the difference.

Now I am finding everything "peanut free" is not always tree nuts free, there's different labeling =/

Cashew is in alot of vegan foods and South Asian dishes (though alot of restaurants stopped using cashew based thickener now, some still do).

Re: Give babies peanut butter to cut peanut allergies, study says

#317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you say it like it's a sort of corporate slut-shaming, but it's not. If you build a factory big enough to make 1/2 the cheese puffs in the world, there's an incentive to make it bigger and make all the cheese puffs in the world. Going from small batch bake/frying to assembly line flow is the 1st step, but once you're over that hurdle, you might as well go big, as long as you can handle the risk of being stuck with th…

I have no problem with it myself; but the companies/brands certainly do. Lots of national brands have a "this is not produced in a factory or machine that produces any store brand".

> I have no problem with it myself; but the companies/brands certainly do.

actually, the companies don't have a problem with it, the customers do. customers (it's human nature, maslow's hierarchy, etc) cling to their beliefs about themselves and their identification with products that reflect their values. Companies would rather cut costs and sell one-size-fits-all products, but they need to give customers what they want, and different customers want different things.

> Lots of national brands have a "this is not produced in a factory or machine that produces any store brand"

and many people have the need to think that they are "better" than store brands, or more likely on HN, that they "see through" all the marketing, so companies market to you "transparently"... if a brand says "this is not produced X way" and you didn't even mention X, hmmm, do you really think they haven't figured you out?

if you are the cheese puff king, the most expensive thing you can do is not sell everybody exactly what they want, and you probably have redundancy in your manufacturing facilities, so why not segregate which products are on which machines, so long as a market segments aren't too small.

Re: Give babies peanut butter to cut peanut allergies, study says

#318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.traderjoes.com/home/products/pdp/058373 "Bamba Peanut Snacks contain just four, simple ingredients: corn grits, peanut paste, palm oil, and salt."

The palm oil is less than ideal but this isn't exactly health food to begin with.

If they used tasty healthy lard the product wouldn't sell very well in Israel or anywhere else in the Near East...

Re: Give babies peanut butter to cut peanut allergies, study says

#319
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many kids do you think there are in schools who aren't eating solid foods yet?

Many many people put their kids into daycare at 3 months of age since that’s all they get for maternity leave.

A relevant book, coming out next week:

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/675683/poverty-by-a...

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