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Anyone else witnessing a panic inside NLP orgs of big tech companies?

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Re: Anyone else witnessing a panic inside NLP orgs of big tech companies?

#481
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The owner class gets enlightened and makes sure that the govt taxes them and implements a solid Universal Basic Income This is part of what the original UBI concept was about. If this doesn't happen, yes, there will likely be violence until it is fixed. The other view is that many technologies that were supposed to reduce work actually net added work, because now more sophisticated tasks could be done by the humans,…

> The owner class gets enlightened and makes sure that the govt taxes them and implements a solid Universal Basic Income But where will they make their billions from if everyone will be living on a basic income? Less money for them will mean less tax money, and less UBI. It will spiral out of control into complete societal collapse if AI doesn't hit a plateau soon.

Good point.

That is why I said "solid UBI", as in more than merely survival wages, i.e., enough to not merely buy food & shelter, but also to live.

That said, this does need some thinking through multiple stages. On one hand, societies did still work when there was effectively unlimited slave labor, but that may be no more than a rough proxy.

Go to the endpoint assumption that AI and robots can produce everything needed for the population to live, and they are owned by 1% of the population. They made so much money so fast that they bought all the means of production. As of 01-January-2025 everyone is fired. Now what? Your'e right, no one can buy anything. The remaining populace cannot do anything because the new oligarchs have enough money and power to buy &/or threaten any politician.

The population overall is not going to simply lie down and die. About four days after running our of all the food in their pantries, they'll be revolting in the streets. One plausible result is a lot of carnage and the oligarchs are all killed and the AI is destroyed and outlawed. Or, they actually have sufficient command of the military and no defections and the military isn't smart enough to figure out that they're next on the starvation list, so the populace is wiped out as they revolt, and the world is left with the 1% of owners, and 1% of military. Or, there's some kind of balance reached, and the non-AI-owning class of fired people reconstitutes something similar to last year's economy, while the 1% go off to Mars or withdraw into their metaverse-ish thing.

That's just a few random thoughts on rolling the dice among the big forces, but it never plays out like that, so all of these are 99%+ likely to be wrong.

Seems like the only thing we know is that this potentially massively magnifies instability.

Re: Anyone else witnessing a panic inside NLP orgs of big tech companies?

#482
post #26

When I was studying Computational Linguistics I kept running into the unspoken question: given that Google Translate already exists, what is even the point of all of this? We were learning all these ideas about how to model natural language and tag parts of speech using linguistic theory so we could eventually discover that utopian solution that would let us feed two language models into a machine to make it perfectl…

I personally think that humans easily apply structure to language that doesn’t really exist. In fact, we restructure our languages daily, as individuals, when communicating verbally and through text. We make up words and shorthands and abbreviations and portmanteaus. But I think the brain simply makes connections between words and things and the structure of speaking those words is interpreted like audio or visuals i…

Hrm, true, no one’s ever gotten fluent in a language just by reading a textbook.

Re: Anyone else witnessing a panic inside NLP orgs of big tech companies?

#483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am curious if your barber can afford health insurance plus out of pocket maximums for a family of four ($30k+ per year just in premiums plus $5k to $10k oop max), not to mention short and long term disability insurance in case he gets hurt and cannot work. The only situation I can imagine would be if the wife has a government job with extremely generous health insurance subsidies.

Not OP, but I pay my barber $50 for a 15 minute haircut. Runs his “barbershop” out of his house, which he owns, in one of the most desirable neighborhoods in Seattle. There’s always another appointment lined up before and after mine, so I guess he’s pulling 6 figures without much sweat.

"...I pay my barber $50 for a 15 minute haircut..."

Bet you can get the same for less than $20 within 3 miles (and possibly far less).

I paid $10 for my last haircut ($6 two months ago - thank you, Joe Biden). Luckily there's another shop nearby that still charges $5.

Re: Anyone else witnessing a panic inside NLP orgs of big tech companies?

#484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps those in tech can simply see further out. It reminds me of the advent of the internet, the lay person also didn't care, until websites and web apps were made that catered to their needs. But the people who made those sites and apps were precisely the tech people who could see beyond the lay person's idea of what the internet was. So too with AI.

So too with NFTs and web3 /s

AI actually does something useful, Web3 doesn't.

Re: Anyone else witnessing a panic inside NLP orgs of big tech companies?

#485
post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me AlphaZero was boring. :-) Solution space is vast but rules are simple. It was a question of time when somebody could put things together here. There was nothing unknowable about it, unlike how natural languages were always a mystery to me. Even with all the syntax, grammars, linguistic knowledge, NLP... Something was lacking.

Interesting to have this contrast in perspectives. For me, the language generated by ChatGPT is flat and boring. No spark of human creativity or originality or flair. And this cheap trick of getting it to write in rhyme or 'in the style of' such and such I find awfully tacky. I'm not saying AlphaZero was creative either. But because it was operating inside a system that was already beautiful and which had such a vast…

The breakthrough of ChatGPT is not a brilliant literary work per se.

It's how it interprets what people write and provides coherent answers. This was not possible previously.

AlphaZero, chess algos do not have to break this barrier, they work form a very clear and well-defined input. It was clear that a mixture of machine brute force and smart thinking would eventually beat us at these games. No magic here. Alpha family algos are /very/ understandable.

Language, on the contrary, is fundamentally not very well defined. Is it flawed, fluid, diverse... not possible to formalize and make it properly machine-readable. All the smaller bits (words, syntax, etc) are easy. But how these things come together - this can be only vaguely described through rigid formal frammars, but never fully.

Compare that to how on the lowest level we understand our brain very well. Every neuron is a trivial building brick. It's how super-complex functions of input to output arise from these trivial pieces - that's amazing. Every neural network is unique. Abstractions, layers of knowledge - everything is there. And it's kind of unique for every human so unknowable in the general case...

Re: Anyone else witnessing a panic inside NLP orgs of big tech companies?

#486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah also considering the article on Ars today about people testing whether ChatGPT poses no harm. I think singularity is coming but much differently than anticipated. So yes, the economy will have to change massively and less work hours are needed. (And the concepts are there: Negative Income tax, Universal basic income...) The change will be more graceful the less everybody is in denial. As mentioned elsewhere this…

What does "doing it right this time" entail? How does it look like?

I'm not completely sure but considering how the coal industry went slowly out-of-business with subsidiaries going on for decades - at least that's how it was in Germany - this doesn't seem the way to go. At least I'm more than surprised that companies and the state were looking into early pensions instead of options to start from 0 at a new job.

For other legacy industries like the German ICE car industry it was at times a close call, so that's when the 35 hour week became widely adopted during the 90s. Even today it is still an option for new people joining (working on non-legacy products of course).

Re: Anyone else witnessing a panic inside NLP orgs of big tech companies?

#487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider how expensive textiles were before weaving machines. People wore their one set of clothes until they disintegrated. Fast forward to today. I received a solicitation for a charity in the mail the other day. They enclosed pictures of the poor kids. The kids were all wearing fashionable, spotless clothes in perfect condition. That's what industrial textile machines gave us.

And weaving machines have not fully trickled down to citizens. You can not easily buy a weaving machine (there are some second hand ones) or easily go to your local maker space and use the weaving machine to create the design you desire. Open source in the space of textile making is in its infancy even though there are some projects. I bet it is easier to get a low volume tape-out of some custom chips than it is to g…

A basic loom isn't hard to make, any semi-competent carpenter could make one. That's what people did before weaving machines.

I've seen people use them to make rugs and things for sale in gift shops.

There's nothing stopping you from doing this.

Re: Anyone else witnessing a panic inside NLP orgs of big tech companies?

#488
post #471
post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the luddites still starved to death in the street... tell me exactly what we're doing, especially in the US, to avoid the luddites 2.0?

They did?! I thought they just had to learn and adapt doing something else eventually during a transition which was not very fast while also enjoying the new, better and cheaper products available to all. Any source for those starvation deaths? I would like to learn more about what prevented them from simply doing what the survivors did.

I never heard they starved, either. In fact, average life expectancy increased in this period.

Re: Anyone else witnessing a panic inside NLP orgs of big tech companies?

#489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-productive work is exactly what breaking a window and then fixing it is, as well as doing work that is far better done by machine. As to distribution of economic fruits, as I mentioned before, replacing labor with machines made the US the most prosperous country in history, along with the richest poor people.

Non-productive work is not destructive work -- again, Keynes ditches. Your country, the USA, is very close to system collapse because of its inequal distribution of fruits. I daresay it makes good popcorn-time.

> Non-productive work is not destructive work -- again, Keynes ditches.

Sorry, but breaking a window and then fixing it is non-productive.

> Your country, the USA, is very close to system collapse because of its inequal distribution of fruits.

Hardly. If the US will collapse, it's because of the current leftist swing of the government engaging in ever-increasing wealth redistribution.

> I daresay it makes good popcorn-time.

It's the equal distribution of income countries that repeatedly collapse. France is in the news currently because they've discovered that the math of redistribution does not work, and the people who cannot accept the math are rioting.

Re: Anyone else witnessing a panic inside NLP orgs of big tech companies?

#490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-productive work is not destructive work -- again, Keynes ditches. Your country, the USA, is very close to system collapse because of its inequal distribution of fruits. I daresay it makes good popcorn-time.

> Non-productive work is not destructive work -- again, Keynes ditches. Sorry, but breaking a window and then fixing it is non-productive. > Your country, the USA, is very close to system collapse because of its inequal distribution of fruits. Hardly. If the US will collapse, it's because of the current leftist swing of the government engaging in ever-increasing wealth redistribution. > I daresay it makes good popcor…

You could literally be hit by an asteroid and you'd find a way to blame "leftists."

Good night and good luck

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