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Something Pretty Right: The History and Legacy of Visual Basic

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Re: Something Pretty Right: The History and Legacy of Visual Basic

#161

Ideally we should have a modern programming language and environment that a) is very easy to use for new comers and people that aren't professionals to build small functionalities and link different functionalities together b) has visual components (so this disqualifies Python) c) it is flexible and can be used by seasoned professionals to build complex things The complexity of the programming should be gradual, i.e.…

I think you're right.

And there were things in this general direction... Smalltalk and Logo spring to mind.

But there is a lot of culture in computing, and a big problem that isn't recognised let along acknowledged is that today, there are basically only 2 surviving branches on one tree, when 30-40 years ago there was a whole forest.

The branches are Windows (which now means NT) and Unix (which now means Linux and macOS). They both grow out of the same stump: DEC's minicomputers, specifically DEC's 16-bit line.

DEC also had 12-bit, 18-bit, 20-bit, 24-bit and 36-bit lines, all profoundly deeply unlike anything that ever ran C.

And of course there were lots of other minicomputer and mainframe brands that were far far more different than that: Burroughs, UNIVAC, NCR, Control Data Corporation (CDC), RCA, General Electric, and Honeywell. Once known as "IBM and the seven dwarves".

All we have left descends from one branch: DEC 16-bit machines.

The rest is mostly gone. Some are still around, emulated and in maintenance mode, because they run the world's banking systems and air-traffic control and things. Kinda important.

There are whole families of languages and OSes that never used a single line of C or involved any Unix code at all at any point. Whole types of OS and GUI and editor and filesystem and so on more different from Unix than Unix is different from Windows NT.

Whereas today, the traditional Mac is totally gone, replaced by Unix. And Windows is getting more Unix-like all the time and now includes a choice of Unix and two different Linux runtimes.

Suggest that, hey, let's run Smalltalk on the bare metal and teach kids on that, so that they don't even have to ever know what "a file" is or means, and people will say "that's crazy talk!"

Remember the Blues Brothers? "We got both kinds of music! Country AND Western!"

Well, we got both kinds of software today! Unix AND Windows!

They are the same damned thing, and gods help you if you are some heretic that says hey, you know, there are other things out there...

Re: Something Pretty Right: The History and Legacy of Visual Basic

#162
I picked-up a copy of VB1 (student priced, so... $140 CAD, IIRC) - and built a few simple apps (Character creator/manager for original Cyberpunk RPG, dice roller, bowling league management) while I was in school.

Once I left school, I built a couple 'bespoke' commercial applications; 'WinReal' (AFAIK, the first Windows-based real-estate appraisal software - in Canada at least), 'WireStrand Estimator' (would calculate multi-strand wire/cable material requirements accounting for "twist-over-time" and number of individual strands with or without a core strand) - and a retail POS/accounting system used by a small local chain of 'CD' stores.

But - my real transition from 'glue together controls with some simple logic' was when I was working on that retail/POS software and suffered a project corruption and lost all the code...

... to prevent this from ever happening to me again, I reverse-engineered the .MAK format, and then wrote a simple version control application that would use that to make copies of all the contained files... (I guess I could have just pulled from a directory folder, but - yeah, hindsight is 20/20 - I learned alot and became a better code)...

Around the time of VB3, transitioning to VB4 - my corporate job was having a devil of a time doing that, because they purchased EVERY single VBX control on the market - but had no design standards/governance around which could be used - so, we had an application with about 90 different forms, and there were at least 20-30 different 'textboxes/buttons' from different VBX vendors spread throughout that (based on developer preference for pretty icon in the control panel) - transitioning to VB4/OCX was a nightmare, because not every vendor was also upgrading in a timely fashion.

Myself, I had started outgrowing the constraints with VB3 for personal/hobby/side-hustle projects - and ended-up using Delphi. I could create and sell a standalone, single-file multi-media screensaver - with not VB runtime dependencies. It was faster, more powerful - but never caught-on for my commercial/corporate clients. (In 20 years, I have only found 2 organizations that used Delphi internally)

Ah... memories... Now no one lets me code anymore (well - in compiled fashion - I do alot of DevOps/automation scripting)

Re: Something Pretty Right: The History and Legacy of Visual Basic

#163

Microsoft killed Visual Basic on purpose. They wanted to force everyone to move to c# because they were afraid of Java and wanted to compete against their market.

This is the most important comment so far.

MS tried to embrace, extend and extinguish Java. It got blocked in court.

So, instead, it pushed .NET instead. "If it ain't dot-net, it ain't worth sh*t."

So everything that wasn't dot-net was killed.

Real VB loved by millions? Dead. QBasic, QuickBasic, Quick C? Dead. FoxPro, a good dBase clone, the database of choice for millions of businesses worldwide in the '70s, '80s and '90s? Dead. FrontPage, democratising the web for millions? Dead. HTML is dead, use ASP.net.

Re: Something Pretty Right: The History and Legacy of Visual Basic

#164
post #11

I spent a couple weeks downloading a pirated vb6 with a download manager that could resume. I think it was 1GB, on dial-up. Once I had it installed I had like 6mb free space. I made a bunch of AO-progz and an mp3 player. And a bunch of friends in #vb6 on aol, which I keep to this day.

My first experience with programming was creating my own fader for AOL. Great times.

Did you release it? What was it?

Re: Something Pretty Right: The History and Legacy of Visual Basic

#165

This article was really, really well written and researched. Cudos! Even the bridge at the end back to their product was well done (they're usually abrupt). Excellent piece of journalism and content marketing

BTW, it's "kudos".

The OS for the machine Linus Torvalds started on, the Sinclair QL, was called QDOS as a pun.

The original codename for 86DOS, which became MS-DOS and made Microsoft rich, was also QDOS, for the same reason.

Because cue-doss sounds like "kudos".

Re: Something Pretty Right: The History and Legacy of Visual Basic

#166

Interesting... there is someone trying to create a modern Visual Basic 6 compiler & IDE : https://www.radbasic.dev/

There are several.

https://gambas.sourceforge.net/en/main.html

https://www.b4x.com/b4j.html

https://www.freebyte.com/programming/compilers/envelop/

https://xbasic.sourceforge.net/

That's just a handful. There are or were more.

Re: Something Pretty Right: The History and Legacy of Visual Basic

#167

VB6 is often underrated as a programming language, but it did have some neat things that are still not present in existing programming languages. (They were dropped in VB.NET.) In a sense VB6 is still ahead of its time. One is the transparent intergration with COM objects, allowing you to access objects in another process (possibly from a different executable) in exactly the same way as in-process object. All the mar…

> One is the transparent intergration with COM

I think this is one of the things detractors of VB kinda miss. You could build quite sophisticated software to leverage COM/DCOM without needing to go full C/C++ and IDL.

The place I worked at built software that ran inside Microsoft Transaction Server (latterly COM+) to exploit distributed transactions.

And then there's the really "advanced" stuff you could do in VB as written about by Matthew Curland in his excellent book "Advanced Visual Basic 6: Power Techniques for Everyday Programs"[0]. Armed with a copy of Curland's book and Don Box's "Essential COM" you could be really dangerous :)

[0]: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Advanced-Visual-Basic-Programming-D...

Re: Something Pretty Right: The History and Legacy of Visual Basic

#169
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well - basically, if you wanted to become a fighter pilot and had VB1-6 experience and wanted the "RAD" forms tools, but also wanted true OOP, there was always... Delphi You could do pretty much anything with Delphi that you could do with C/C++ on Windows.

True, but that's also true of .NET

I thing the point being made is that those things were available prior to .net - Delphi existed in a stable state with those facilities long before .net did.

Re: Something Pretty Right: The History and Legacy of Visual Basic

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is wrong with bus drivers?

Nothing is wrong with bus drivers! :-) I'm not sure comparing software developers to bus drivers is a metaphor that gets us very far... In fact, why some bus drivers might want to really be flying fighter jets also had me scratching my head.

More like bus drivers wanting to become heavy machinery operators...
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