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Something Pretty Right: The History and Legacy of Visual Basic

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Re: Something Pretty Right: The History and Legacy of Visual Basic

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Access could easily become a victim of its own success if the dataset got too large. I made some money off of a couple projects where that happened. I had to convert them to sqlserver to both handle the data load and for true multiuser.

That is true. People don't understand that there is an upper limit to Access before you run into issues - but it's fairly large.. what was it? 4GB? Edit: 2gb!

It's worse than that.

The thing that imposes these limitations is the somewhat primitive DB engine for Access, which is codenamed MS Jet:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Access_Database_Engine

But the big that MS & MS fans don't like to mention is that MS Exchange Server uses a version of the same storage engine.

It's not mentioned even once in these Wikipedia articles, for instance, but if you look, you will find telltale giveaways such as Exchange store size limitations:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Exchange_Server

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Microsoft_Exchange_...

However, if you dig a little, you'll find that the underlying storage engine is also codenamed "Jet":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extensible_Storage_Engine

Jet Red vs Jet Blue. Totally different, honest.

These days, it's also used in trivial unimportant Windows subsystems such as -- er -- Active Directory, Windows Update, and the Windows Search indices.

Yes, the fragile, essentially single-user, easily-corrupted Access DB engine is an integral part of Windows Server.

Which is a bit odd considering MS also owns SQL Server (bought in from Sybase), and could in principle use that instead, which does not have these built-in limitations and is rather more robust.

Access was in part built in response to Lotus Approach, which brought Claris Filemaker-like simplicity to Windows end-user databases. MS could not tolerate that, so built its own Approach-killer, which was vastly more complex. It acquired FoxPro, a dBase III/IV clone, for its very fast indexing functionality, which was bolted onto MS Cirrus to make Access, and the rest of FoxPro went largely unmaintained until it could be discontinued.

Exchange Server of course replaced MS Mail, which was also bought in and was previously called Network Courier from Consumers Software. Other MS purchases include Powerpoint, Frontpage, Visual BASIC, and Visio.

There is a general pattern evidence in 1990s MS software which isn't universal but widespread. If it's lean, mean, simple, fast, or elegant, it was bought in. If it's overcomplex, fragile, has bizarre limitations for non-obvious reasons, and needs careful maintenance, it was built in-house, probably in response to a successful competing product.

Re: Something Pretty Right: The History and Legacy of Visual Basic

#112
It leaves out one important point --- Microsoft killed off a similar development on a competing platform:

https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=MacBasic.txt&cha...

TLDR: Bill Gates got the source code for "MacBasic" from Apple for $1 in exchange for continuing the license for Microsoft BASIC on the Apple ][.

Re: Something Pretty Right: The History and Legacy of Visual Basic

#113
post #102
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excel is another amazing piece of software, that is almost universally looked down upon by programmers. Why make complex calculations in a GUI if you can just write a Python script with numpy and pandas!? And yet, so much of the world runs on excel spreadsheets being sent back and forth. Why? Because 1) it has a low skill floor and very high ceiling, 2) everyone uses the same tool (or at least it's backward and forwa…

Excel is another amazing piece of software, that is almost universally looked down upon by programmers. I read somewhere that there are 10 x more Excel "programmers" in the world than programmers for all other languages put together.

To give a little anecdote, my 600 person company probably has 200+ engineers (mostly electrical with some mechanical). I'd say that 1/5 has some programming skill in Python or C# and 1/10 probably is pretty decent and spends 5+ hours a week writing code. I'm fairly confident that all 200/200 are competent Excel users with most all spending 10+ hours a week doing spreadsheets mapping data together and analyzing it. Pandas is great, but if you don't need all the stats and the dataset fits in the spreadsheet, Excel beats it hands down in most uses.

Re: Something Pretty Right: The History and Legacy of Visual Basic

#115
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorta like Excel, then?

You can program Excel using Visual Basic for Applications. At one of my former workplaces, a backend colleague of mine built a functional prototype of a new feature in Excel using VBA in far less time it took whole UI + frontend teams to build the same.

It can be pretty nice to add a button to your spreadsheet that fires off a VBA macro that runs some code in the background.

I just wish Microsoft made the whole experience a lot better as writing VBA is a bit confusing.

Re: Something Pretty Right: The History and Legacy of Visual Basic

#116
post #28

Hilarious quote (notwithstanding the fact that bus drivers usually have to work shifts, also on weekends): > Almost all Visual Basic 6 programmers were content with what Visual Basic 6 did. They were happy to be bus drivers: to leave the office at 5 p.m. (or 4:30 p.m. on a really nice day) instead of working until midnight; to play with their families on weekends instead of trudging back to the office. They didn't la…

[dead]

Re: Something Pretty Right: The History and Legacy of Visual Basic

#117

The WYSIWYG GUI builder that VB provided, I have never encountered afterwards again in quite that manner. Now, in VBs heyday the field of UX design we now have as a profession adjacent to software development was in its infancy and was usually an implicit part of the developers job. What was lost with the demise of the RAD tools was a potentially shared medium of expression. Today designers build Potemkin villages in…

I think the WYSIWYG WPF and Silverlight tools were pretty close to VB6 level of usability. The tools are great for building a quick UI, but I think they fall short for more complex applications.

This is why designers have their own preferences when it comes to designing the UX, to give them the flexibility to create the UI as they see fit. When different teams are working on a shared goal, there can always an element of "throw it over the fence".

As a developer, I always saw part of my job as getting plugged in with the other teams as much as possible. Providing continuous advisement and feedback on UX patterns as projects progress really helps things move smoothly.

Re: Something Pretty Right: The History and Legacy of Visual Basic

#118

Ryan and David and team, I am so happy to see this posted! I'm quoted a few places in it. Yes, the story about the origin of the phrase "fire an event" is true and correct. I could even tell you exactly where I was sitting and which way I was facing when that event fired. Some things stick in your mind, doobies or not. Also mentioned is the VBX. In some ways, this may have been the worst API I ever designed. It was s…

Were you aware of how MS killed off the competing MacBASIC?

Did you ever see the sourcecode for it?

How would you tell the VisualBASIC side of this story:

https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=MacBasic.txt&cha...

Re: Something Pretty Right: The History and Legacy of Visual Basic

#119

Visual Basic was so good. Growing up all I knew was Windows, so being able to create fairly reasonable looking GUI apps at the time seemed like magic. I remember building a "web browser" in VB, I put that in quotes because it was really just an IE webview/control wrapped in my own custom UI with features like not recording browser history. I remember making a "virus" and sending it to a mate, and when he opened it, y…

I did those things as well as a teenager. I wrote a tcpi/ip chat program and we used it in school to chat with each other. It all seemed like magic to me. I did the thing with opening the CD drive continuously in a loop, and sending this to friends. It was hilarious.

Altough I'd never use it today, it still acted as a catalyser for my interest in programming and computers.

Re: Something Pretty Right: The History and Legacy of Visual Basic

#120
post #2

It was surprising to us (here at Retool) that visual programming has never taken off, despite countless attempts over the past few decades. (That's why we started Retool, after all.) But Visual Basic is probably the product that came closest, and that's why we wrote this homage to it. It, along with Filemaker, Hypercard, are products that we loved. And we always wished that they had flourished, since then we wouldn't…

> visual programming has never taken off, despite countless attempts over the past few decades. It has, in some niches like Unreal Blueprints. I think one of the reasons it doesn't become more popular is because most visual programming is just a more cumbersome and slow way of programming. It's stringing the same concepts together in the same way, but slowly and tediously with a mouse. Non-tech users wouldn't know wh…

I find dragging-dropping and re-arranging far more expressive for 3D modeling using BlockSCAD than I do the equivalent OpenSCAD code:

https://www.blockscad3d.com/editor/

I'm trying to achieve a similar fluency using OpenSCAD Graph Editor:

https://github.com/derkork/openscad-graph-editor

hopefully a future version will be even more useful than BlockSCAD/Blockly.

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