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Toxic fumes on airplanes? Airlines may have to do something about it

latimes.com

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Re: Toxic fumes on airplanes? Airlines may have to do something about it

#41
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The alcohol being served on the flight should scare you more than the MCAS. The coffee/water/ice scare me more than either of those. A former FA family member told me longer term employees wouldn’t dare touch the stuff.

Why?

If the coffee pots, water tanks, etc. are cleaned as rigorously as the same at restaurants and so on, then yeah I could see the desire to only want stuff that came in sealed bottles and touched no ice.

Re: Toxic fumes on airplanes? Airlines may have to do something about it

#42

What people don't take into account is that human effort is both limited and fungible. Even if we restrict ourselves to only activities that improve health and/or environment, any effort spent on this could have been spent on something else. Is this the BEST way to spend that effort? I don't know, maybe it is. But would it be better spent on recycling, solar power, species protection, cancer research, etc? I hope som…

This is at least the second time you've posted the same thing... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35170026

It's exactly the second time - so far.

There are so, so many great things we can do. Removing or mitigating toxic chemicals from airplane air is on that list for sure.

But I think it's responsible to consider things not in isolation, but with the understanding that doing any one of those awesome things come at the expense of many other things. I don't often see folks trying to quantify the level of goodness that comes from an activity or the level of effort involved in attaining it. Simply recognizing this as a trade off would be a healthy step.

Re: Toxic fumes on airplanes? Airlines may have to do something about it

#43
I fly a lot, and have noticed a very strong smell of fuel several times on various aircraft, while still at the gate just before taxiing to the runway. It always baffles me that passengers don't overreact to it, because it can be very pungent and will cause a mild headache.

I've always wondered how toxic this is. Apparently it's caused by wind blowing jet fuel fumes into the air conditioning intake so it's indeed fumes that make it into the cabin for a few minutes.

Re: Toxic fumes on airplanes? Airlines may have to do something about it

#44
post #35
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you are implying conspiracy-like behavior, instead of recognizing the absurd rarity of the event: > "Over a two-year period, nearly 400 pilots, flight attendants and passengers reported receiving medical attention after these “fume events,” and four dozen pilots were described as impaired to the point of being unable to perform their duties, The Times found." This same two year period flew about 280 milli…

If you told me that if I leave my house at 10:00 PM to-nite and I had a probability 1/15000 chance of dying or become incapacitated I would more than likely wait five or ten mins before leaving.

50-year-old males have a 1/75000 chance of dying on any given day. 70-year-old males have a 1/15000 chance of dying on any given day. See https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html

Re: Toxic fumes on airplanes? Airlines may have to do something about it

#46

Air quality monitors definitely do need to be installed on airplanes in order to measure the scope of the problem before panicking over it. From the parent article: "Over a two-year period, nearly 400 pilots, flight attendants and passengers reported receiving medical attention after these “fume events,” and four dozen pilots were described as impaired to the point of being unable to perform their duties, The Times f…

Some genetic conditions like factor 5 Leiden can be triggered by strong chemical exposure. Imagine your blood deciding that clotting constantly for rest of life is a good idea.

Re: Toxic fumes on airplanes? Airlines may have to do something about it

#47

I don't understand how modern airliners, with all their advanced high-tech complicated design, operating in such a tightly controlled regulatory environment, can still be having trouble with this. Crazy.

This shouldn't be that surprising. A jet engine that operates across temperature ranges of hundreds of degrees, with air shuffling through it at near the speed of sound and burning huge amounts of fuel every second may occasionally have something break every few thousand hours. Mechanical components (including oil tubes and cylinders) can fail.

Re: Toxic fumes on airplanes? Airlines may have to do something about it

#48

I fly a lot, and have noticed a very strong smell of fuel several times on various aircraft, while still at the gate just before taxiing to the runway. It always baffles me that passengers don't overreact to it, because it can be very pungent and will cause a mild headache. I've always wondered how toxic this is. Apparently it's caused by wind blowing jet fuel fumes into the air conditioning intake so it's indeed fum…

What is PM1 filters?

Re: Toxic fumes on airplanes? Airlines may have to do something about it

#49
post #35
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you are implying conspiracy-like behavior, instead of recognizing the absurd rarity of the event: > "Over a two-year period, nearly 400 pilots, flight attendants and passengers reported receiving medical attention after these “fume events,” and four dozen pilots were described as impaired to the point of being unable to perform their duties, The Times found." This same two year period flew about 280 milli…

If you told me that if I leave my house at 10:00 PM to-nite and I had a probability 1/15000 chance of dying or become incapacitated I would more than likely wait five or ten mins before leaving.

Edit: I do apologize, I typo'd. My ratio should have been 1 in 700k, not 1 in 15k

> of dying or become incapacitated

Sorry, I don't see any death in the logs, can you point me to recent aviation deaths that were caused by this?

> or become incapacitated

For instance, you have a ~1 in 366 chance of being in a car accident per 1000 miles driven.

I think you should stay home more often, or learn more about probability.

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