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How did Dennis Ritchie produce his PhD thesis? A typographical mystery (2022) [pdf]

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Re: How did Dennis Ritchie produce his PhD thesis? A typographical mystery (2022) [pdf]

#141

Post by Maursault »

AlphaGeekZulu wrote: post #127
Maursault wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am fully into the typewriter theory. I don't think that's possible. I was a typesetter for 14 years throughout the first years of desktop publishing and deep into the 1990s, and though with WYSIWYG software reproducing this would be possible, it also would be painful. I suspect Richie used several methods, including a typewriter, paste up and photocopy, but all the copy was probably output with a line printer wit…

Formulas and tables much more intricate than that of Dennis' PhD, were typeset in metal type and letterpress printed a hundred years ago. It was just so incredibly much work, that the "generation DTP" cannot even imagine the efforts. I finished my typesetter apprenticeship in 1984. Although we had the most sophisticated fototypesetting systems of the time, we were not able to produce font outlines of arbitrary fonts…

> DTP would make all this possible in an incredibly short time...

From proof to press, sure, near instant, but DTP doesn't have any effect whatsoever on actually setting the type, which couldn't be done with a mere wave of a mouse. It might take a couple weeks to typeset 180 pages, and at the precision of Ritchie's originals, it would be a harrowing couple of weeks. You couldn't just flow the text into a stylesheet, you'd need to create every page individually (unless flow didn't matter).

Re: How did Dennis Ritchie produce his PhD thesis? A typographical mystery (2022) [pdf]

#142

Post by AlphaGeekZulu »

Maursault wrote: post #141
AlphaGeekZulu wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Formulas and tables much more intricate than that of Dennis' PhD, were typeset in metal type and letterpress printed a hundred years ago. It was just so incredibly much work, that the "generation DTP" cannot even imagine the efforts. I finished my typesetter apprenticeship in 1984. Although we had the most sophisticated fototypesetting systems of the time, we were not able to produce font outlines of arbitrary fonts…

> DTP would make all this possible in an incredibly short time... From proof to press, sure, near instant, but DTP doesn't have any effect whatsoever on actually setting the type, which couldn't be done with a mere wave of a mouse. It might take a couple weeks to typeset 180 pages, and at the precision of Ritchie's originals, it would be a harrowing couple of weeks. You couldn't just flow the text into a stylesheet,…

I agree. And I should really look into the full work...

Re: How did Dennis Ritchie produce his PhD thesis? A typographical mystery (2022) [pdf]

#143

Post by codezero »

raphlinus wrote: post #11

I'm curious why they haven't done more forensic typographic analysis of the fonts themselves. There are a number of images of actual Selectric fonts, including [1], and that includes symbols and other variations. Close examination would either confirm the use of that equipment, or else discrepancies would be a valuable clue. Thomas Phinney, Font Detective[2] is the first person I'd ask, as he's done this professional…

That does seem to answer one of the questions raised about why there are two different formats for the number 4, and one of the ones used is included in several of the selectric fonts linked here.

Re: How did Dennis Ritchie produce his PhD thesis? A typographical mystery (2022) [pdf]

#145

Post by jleyank »

kps wrote: post #118
jleyank wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I remember is a cup-shaped daisy wheel rather than the typical flat one. The cup rotated in the horizontal plane while the individual “keys” were vertical and the hammer strike was inside the rotating cup. I’m trying to google this but man, that was a while ago…. Might be mis remembering but it might also have been a patent dodge. Had a “normal” Daisy wheel printer back then, bought it with my kaypro. This was e…

‘Thimble printer’ is the generic term; the NEC Spinwriter series is the primary example. https://typewriterdatabase.com/197x-nec-spinwriter-7720.7239... https://www.computerhistory.org/revolution/input-output/14/3...

Spinwriter was sticking in my mind, and the computer museum came to my rescue: https://www.computerhistory.org/revolution/input-output/14/3...

Whomever called it tulip didn’t know flower shapes either. I’m a hacker not a botanist :-).

Re: How did Dennis Ritchie produce his PhD thesis? A typographical mystery (2022) [pdf]

#146

Post by benj111 »

fsckboy wrote: post #139
benj111 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>once you get used to computers it's hard to remember.... True, but there's a big clue in the name.

that clue could be interpreted as "type a space going backward, wiping out what was there" because 0x20 SPC is an ascii character which is a blank, while "space" on a typewriter is an abstract relative concept, depending entirely where you very finely (but very hard to see) positioned the carriage and it's not guaranteed to be blank if you position it where there is some preexisting typewritten ink.

Do the general populace understand a space on a word processor to be an ASCII (or utf) character though.

Further how would a backwards space work under that model? Wouldn't that jump back to the previous character? But it's not obvious to me that it would obliterate the previous character

Re: How did Dennis Ritchie produce his PhD thesis? A typographical mystery (2022) [pdf]

#147

Post by RosanaAnaDana »

I want to know about the interface of the typewriter/ printer he was working off of. Also what kinds of stencil guides were available at the time. My hot take after reading it: Did he have some way of 'setting' the stencils directly onto the printer in a very controlled way and the ability to 'pause' printing?

IE, prints prints prints, pause, some stencil required, put in stencil into controlled space, make mark, remove stencil, press space bar, prints prints prints prints...

It might also explain the '+' issues. It might have been a very small stencil and less well fit into a stencil guide.

Re: How did Dennis Ritchie produce his PhD thesis? A typographical mystery (2022) [pdf]

#148

Post by squokko »

jleyank wrote: post #78
squokko wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Tulip wheel" is hilarious because a print wheel looks a lot like a daisy and nothing like a tulip.

What I remember is a cup-shaped daisy wheel rather than the typical flat one. The cup rotated in the horizontal plane while the individual “keys” were vertical and the hammer strike was inside the rotating cup. I’m trying to google this but man, that was a while ago…. Might be mis remembering but it might also have been a patent dodge. Had a “normal” Daisy wheel printer back then, bought it with my kaypro. This was e…

Wow, amazing. There was a daisy wheel and a tulip wheel and they were different technologies. Apologies to GP

Re: How did Dennis Ritchie produce his PhD thesis? A typographical mystery (2022) [pdf]

#149

Post by tcgv »

syntaxfree wrote: post #84
ricksunny wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Sometimes it only requires a personal relation to make something seemingly impossible happen. That's a very empowering anecdote & story, thank you for sharing it :)

Empowering for some, maybe. The anecdote reinforces the now dominant view that networking is everything and people deserve benefits and opportunities that at a different time might be labeled nepotism or favoritism. Honestly the best opportunities I’ve had in life (in different decades, too) were all linked to favoritism by this one friend. The message this sends is that I should have more well-connected successful f…

> The message this sends is that I should have more well-connected successful friends. Is this empowering?

We can also view it from another perspective. Even in a fair society where everyone has socioeconomic balanced connections, a situation where someone has access to advanced photography/printing tools at the same time this person's girlfriend needs to produce her thesis could still arise.

Looking at the situation positively, we can say that the empowering aspect is that synergic opportunities can arise unexpectedly, enabling outstanding work to be accomplished.

However, it's true that the society we currently live in is far from fair and balanced.

Re: How did Dennis Ritchie produce his PhD thesis? A typographical mystery (2022) [pdf]

#150

Post by ddingus »

FrojoS wrote: post #131
ddingus wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is both empowering and negative.[0] I got the same mentoring early in life. Networking matters. And yeah the system sucks and is a poor meritocracy, if that itself is even the better state of affairs. Regardless, we live in the system we have and we either work it to our benefit or not. Meta: [0] Naysayers, knowledge is power. Prior to said mentoring, I had near completely dismissed networking, believing is was un…

The "system" is just the underlying nature, isn't it? Nature is not a pure meritocracy. It's more efficient to accomplish work when you work with others, provided you complement each other, and it's easier to work with others if you know them well and can trust them. Having to find new people frequently, learn who they are, what they are capable of, and if they are trustworthy instead of relying on your existing netw…

I don't see nature as a pure meritocracy myself. I have had a large number of people express the desire for "the system" to be a pure, very functional meritocracy, and I myself envisioned it more that way much earlier in life.

As for efficency... Maybe! There are strong arguments either way. I prefer a base network, with fluid edges able to respond with depth and breadth.

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