Linux desktop leaders unite behind Flathub app store. Here's why • Hacker News Board

Re: Linux desktop leaders unite behind Flathub app store. Here's why

#121

Post by lifty » Thu, Mar 16, 2023, 2:16 PM UTC

superkuh wrote: post #111

kaba0 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe don’t double down on something you don’t understand and has been corrected about several times.

Maybe don't pretend a trivial semantic difference due to your point of view means I don't know what I'm talking about. Yes, Nix only alters environmental variables, but guess what, that's pretty much what Snaps do too plus a bit of bind use. The fact that people are constantly asking "Will Nix Overtake Docker" is another hint about actual usage. Snaps bind in the libs, Nix sets env variables to set the available libs…

There is a colloquial usage of the word container when it comes to Linux, and it's not what you're referring to, as similar as they may seem.

Re: Linux desktop leaders unite behind Flathub app store. Here's why

#122

Post by superkuh » Thu, Mar 16, 2023, 5:12 PM UTC

colordrops wrote: post #112

superkuh wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe don't pretend a trivial semantic difference due to your point of view means I don't know what I'm talking about. Yes, Nix only alters environmental variables, but guess what, that's pretty much what Snaps do too plus a bit of bind use. The fact that people are constantly asking "Will Nix Overtake Docker" is another hint about actual usage. Snaps bind in the libs, Nix sets env variables to set the available libs…

What does a container mean to you? On Nix there is no separation of file system or network across applications. The same installed libraries can be used by multiple apps. Apps have access to the same system services and run together, e.g. with a single systemd. How can you call what Nix is doing "containers" ? There's virtually no overlap. Zoom overtook the local freeway as the preferred mechanism for get to meetings…

On Snaps there is no separation of network access. The same installed libraries can be used by multiple applications. Applications have access to the same system services and run together. How can you pretend Nix is different from a Snap container? There's virtually complete overlap.

Or maybe you'll now say that Snaps are not containers because they do it in a Nix like way? By your logic a frontage road is not a road just because it's dedicated to a single commercial development and named differently.

In my top level post which started this big thread I claimed that the purpose of containers (Nix, Snaps, Flatpack, Docker, AppImage, etc) is to solve the future shock problem and allow running of broken applications by controlling the libs available. I stick to that claim here.

Re: Linux desktop leaders unite behind Flathub app store. Here's why

#123

Post by colordrops » Thu, Mar 16, 2023, 7:20 PM UTC

superkuh wrote: post #122

colordrops wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does a container mean to you? On Nix there is no separation of file system or network across applications. The same installed libraries can be used by multiple apps. Apps have access to the same system services and run together, e.g. with a single systemd. How can you call what Nix is doing "containers" ? There's virtually no overlap. Zoom overtook the local freeway as the preferred mechanism for get to meetings…

On Snaps there is no separation of network access. The same installed libraries can be used by multiple applications. Applications have access to the same system services and run together. How can you pretend Nix is different from a Snap container? There's virtually complete overlap. Or maybe you'll now say that Snaps are not containers because they do it in a Nix like way? By your logic a frontage road is not a road…

I'm reading on snapcraft that most snap packages use "strict" confinement, which means that they "run in complete isolation, up to a minimal access level that’s deemed always safe. Consequently, strictly confined snaps can not access your files, network, processes or any other system resource without requesting specific access via an interface."

Sounds like a container to me, and it's not how Nix does things.

Re: Linux desktop leaders unite behind Flathub app store. Here's why

#124

Post by whoisthemachine » Thu, Mar 16, 2023, 9:45 PM UTC

Infernal wrote: post #27

oynqr wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Appimages are not statically linked at all.

While not statically linked necessarily, app images do attempt to bundle dependencies such that they “just work” as self-contained executables on most Linux distros - which is what the poster above seems to care about.

Yes, this was what I meant! For most users (at least for this user), it gives essentially the same outcome.