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Shoshikantetsu

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Re: Shoshikantetsu

#81

Post by School-Cotton »

dmix wrote: post #71
School-Cotton wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To point at a deer and call it a horse. When indigenous Mexicans first met Spaniards, they described their horses (which are not native to the New World, so they had never seen before) as “a sort of giant deer”. It’s totally off-topic here but I always thought that was interesting.

There were actually horses in the new world, it's just that the natives hunted them all to extinction well before the Europeans arrived. Likewise with most other "mega fuana" in North America. There's also theories that climate changes played a role in addition to over exploitation.

True, but to be clear, they had gone extinct thousands of years before the Spanish brought them back, so the natives in the early 16th century had no way of knowing about them.

Re: Shoshikantetsu

#82

Post by mchaver »

jaqalopes wrote: post #76

Having a high say-do ratio has always been important to me I've never encountered this idea, but as soon I read it I suddenly see it everywhere. My roommate who tells me he'll clean the kitchen then doesn't; my cousin who says he'll come to dinner then cancels. My best friend who says she'll start going to the gym and never does. My world is awash in people who say the most wonderful things and then don't do any of t…

I think this is a common cultural practice in many places in the US. It is nice to say nice things that are not necessarily true or make friendly invitations that are not firm invitations. In other cultures it is better to say true things and/or limit pleasantries that are not true.

Re: Shoshikantetsu

#84

Post by spoiler »

jaqalopes wrote: post #76

Having a high say-do ratio has always been important to me I've never encountered this idea, but as soon I read it I suddenly see it everywhere. My roommate who tells me he'll clean the kitchen then doesn't; my cousin who says he'll come to dinner then cancels. My best friend who says she'll start going to the gym and never does. My world is awash in people who say the most wonderful things and then don't do any of t…

> My best friend who says she'll start going to the gym and never does.

My friend always calls me out on this, and now I'm being haunted by you too, a person form the internet!

But on a more serious note, I think often times people believe when they say they want to do something, but end up not doing it for various reasons. Sometimes it's lack of self-love, other times it's low energy levels or lapses in time management. Sometimes people do try, but get discouraged and shy away.

I think the person on the other side ia often just as frustrated by themselves—if not even more, but they can't tell what and where it went wrong, which is equally frustrating in itself.

I am the best person at frustrating myself and fucking my days up. Sigh I never learn.

Re: Shoshikantetsu

#85

Post by carapace »

NalNezumi wrote: post #58
creakingstairs wrote: post #37

Sharing some Korean Yojijukugos (originating from China) 위록지마(謂鹿止馬) wii rok ji ma To point at a deer and call it a horse. Used for suck ups who says agrees to things that are clearly not right. 읍참마속(泣斬馬謖) ub cham ma sok To behead Ma Su (name) while crying. In the Romance of Three Kingdoms, Zhuge Liang had to behead his favourite general Ma Su as he wept because Ma Su ignored the given command resulting in losing the…

>위록지마(謂鹿止馬) wii rok ji ma To point at a deer and call it a horse. Used for suck ups who says agrees to things that are clearly not right. Adding a little bit of context to this: This seems to be the same origin as the Japanese word baka: 馬鹿 which means stupid and is the combination of the word Horse（馬） and deer (鹿). It has a quite funny background story[1] from ancient China: >Zhao Gao was contemplating treason but w…

"Well, that explains a lot." Cheers!

Re: Shoshikantetsu

#86

Post by cbertoldi »

artemavv wrote: post #59
nullsense wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always joke with my wife that my favorite yojijukugo are 問題解決 and 安全第一 which are literally just "problem solving" and "safety first" haha. My favorite actual yojijukugo is 点滴穿石 which water dripping on a stone in the same spot slowly wears it away, which just means if you keep doing what you're doing you will eventually make some noticeable progress in the long run.

Russian language has an idiom similar to 点滴穿石 - "капля камень точит", literally "a drip grinds a stone", i.e. small but persistent effort eventually overpowers even the most hardy obstacles

I'd bet that many languages have this idiom. I know it in Latin, Italian and German: - gutta cavat lapidem - la goccia scava la pietra - steter Tropfen höhlt den Stein

Re: Shoshikantetsu

#87

Post by 1123581321 »

creakingstairs wrote: post #37

Sharing some Korean Yojijukugos (originating from China) 위록지마(謂鹿止馬) wii rok ji ma To point at a deer and call it a horse. Used for suck ups who says agrees to things that are clearly not right. 읍참마속(泣斬馬謖) ub cham ma sok To behead Ma Su (name) while crying. In the Romance of Three Kingdoms, Zhuge Liang had to behead his favourite general Ma Su as he wept because Ma Su ignored the given command resulting in losing the…

Ma Su is also relevant because Zhuge Liang was repeatedly warned that Ma Su had more head knowledge than ability so should not receive a major command. Zhuge Liang's emotions and admiration cost him not only the campaign, but a dear friend.

Re: Shoshikantetsu

#88

Post by lelandfe »

bee_rider wrote: post #79
lelandfe wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To point at a deer and call it a horse. Used for suck ups who says agrees to things that are clearly not right. Love this. A good English equivalent is “the emperor’s new clothes.”

References to the emperor’s new clothes seem to be focused on the moment when the lie everyone is going along with finally gets revealed, though. I think the English equivalent is more like “brown nosing.”

Brown nosing need not involve lying - you can be obsequious without agreeing to an obvious falsehood.

Re: Shoshikantetsu

#89

Post by xhrpost »

jaqalopes wrote: post #76

Having a high say-do ratio has always been important to me I've never encountered this idea, but as soon I read it I suddenly see it everywhere. My roommate who tells me he'll clean the kitchen then doesn't; my cousin who says he'll come to dinner then cancels. My best friend who says she'll start going to the gym and never does. My world is awash in people who say the most wonderful things and then don't do any of t…

I think this is mostly the culture of "should". In our highly individualized society that glorifies self ambition, the list of things we "should" do are endless. However, when we say "I should go to the gym", we're not saying "I value my personal health and wellbeing and am convinced the gym is a path to that", but rather, "Society/friends/family/work might value me a little more if I do this" or "society may value me less if I don't do this". Not too much different from when we buy vegetables at the grocery store because we believe we "should" eat them, only to see them rot away in our refrigerator until we have to throw them out. The saying part is the easy first step, but our values are not in-line to follow through. In the end, "should" is just a mild-ish form of shame and shame is often a terrible motivator for long-term change.

Re: Shoshikantetsu

#90

Post by DFHippie »

jaqalopes wrote: post #76

Having a high say-do ratio has always been important to me I've never encountered this idea, but as soon I read it I suddenly see it everywhere. My roommate who tells me he'll clean the kitchen then doesn't; my cousin who says he'll come to dinner then cancels. My best friend who says she'll start going to the gym and never does. My world is awash in people who say the most wonderful things and then don't do any of t…

There are many things I want to have done but which I don't want to do. I think the key to improving your say-do ratio is to figure out how to do the thing such that it's something you want to do, not something you want to have done. For me, many tasks can be converted into something enjoyable by adding earbuds and a podcast.
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