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What happens when your phone is spying on you

today.ucsd.edu

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Re: What happens when your phone is spying on you

#71
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it because the phone is very intimate to you, or because of the implications?

It's basically the equivalent of someone in the 80s tapping your phone line.

Rather someone in the 80 changing the numbers on your phone book so that you dial a wrong number.

Re: What happens when your phone is spying on you

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> talking to a person to order takeaway Also supports small business by saving them double-digit app fees!

Not necessarily. The delivery apps set up proxy numbers to pass calls through, taking a lead fee. So you can't just search "sub shop near me" and call, as it might not be their actual phone number. Your best bet if you want to save the local place fees from the apps is walk in the first time, then call the number off the paper menu from then on.

If they have a website, that's usually a good number too

Re: What happens when your phone is spying on you

#73
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would think the panic over TikTok spying would illuminate the problem with apps having carte-blanche access to your personal data 24/7. There is nothing that the TikTok app does that any other app cannot also do. It seems nobody wants to make that connection. There should be real protections for consumers to prevent ANY application from slurping up this data, and I don't mean just a disclosure or system setting t…

Most privacy advocates probably do plenty of things I would be perfectly happy to see made illegal, but we don't just ban them because we don't want a complete dictatorship of one segment of the population over everyone else, and because it seems the people realize it would cause problems for some people, and we need to be careful to find suitable replacements before we ban things. A lot of the tech I imagine you are…

What do you mean by "Most privacy advocates probably do plenty of things I would be perfectly happy to see made illegal"? Can you give some examples of what you mean by things you want to see made illegal?

Re: What happens when your phone is spying on you

#74

I found this article very shallow. It covers only spyware that are installed when a device is physically compromised. I was hoping it would cover spy/malware that install remotely through many more infection vectors like clicking text messages. I guess NSO/Pegasus malware has this capability. I barely use any apps and would gladly settle for a flip phone... I value privacy more than the ability to order food through…

Oh here, let me run it down real quick. You don't even need to be an expert. Tracking cookies, browser fingerprinting, and ISP-level monitoring logs everything you do. Various consumer database warehouses hoover up the data for resale/targetting by ad companies Hint: once a business has it, at a minimum the FBI/CIA/Government has it. Likely, they've been hacked by China and Russia too. In addition, the CIA/FBI run IS…

God's all-seeing presence is a preservative against sin and a means to make you watchful over all your ways and actions. - Thomas Gouge

It was always the intent to make sight of citizens completely transparent.

Re: What happens when your phone is spying on you

#75

I found this article very shallow. It covers only spyware that are installed when a device is physically compromised. I was hoping it would cover spy/malware that install remotely through many more infection vectors like clicking text messages. I guess NSO/Pegasus malware has this capability. I barely use any apps and would gladly settle for a flip phone... I value privacy more than the ability to order food through…

Oh here, let me run it down real quick. You don't even need to be an expert. Tracking cookies, browser fingerprinting, and ISP-level monitoring logs everything you do. Various consumer database warehouses hoover up the data for resale/targetting by ad companies Hint: once a business has it, at a minimum the FBI/CIA/Government has it. Likely, they've been hacked by China and Russia too. In addition, the CIA/FBI run IS…

Exactly three years ago I would have laughed at you, but three years of COVID has taught me that the powers that be in our society — which include journalists, academics and moderators of online forums — will happily help tear down essential liberties for perceived, small, and temporary safeties.

The abuses stemming from a lack of privacy have not been realized because of political convictions, but because of technical limitations. The advent of advanced AI models will remove many of these technical limitations and allow corporations and governments to quickly build detailed profiles of every citizen that touches the internet.

Re: What happens when your phone is spying on you

#76

I found this article very shallow. It covers only spyware that are installed when a device is physically compromised. I was hoping it would cover spy/malware that install remotely through many more infection vectors like clicking text messages. I guess NSO/Pegasus malware has this capability. I barely use any apps and would gladly settle for a flip phone... I value privacy more than the ability to order food through…

Apple has “Advanced Data Protection” that you can enable This was built after the NSO group hacks to lock down the device to be resilient to nation state attacks. It limits some of the attack vectors you’re taking about (with a tradeoff of also limiting some features). Apple also enabled true e2ee in the cloud where only you retain the keys.

> Apple also enabled true e2ee in the cloud where only you retain the keys.

Is there a procedure to realistically verify that your communications are e2e and not e2mitm2e ?

Re: What happens when your phone is spying on you

#77
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would think the panic over TikTok spying would illuminate the problem with apps having carte-blanche access to your personal data 24/7. There is nothing that the TikTok app does that any other app cannot also do. It seems nobody wants to make that connection. There should be real protections for consumers to prevent ANY application from slurping up this data, and I don't mean just a disclosure or system setting t…

Most privacy advocates probably do plenty of things I would be perfectly happy to see made illegal, but we don't just ban them because we don't want a complete dictatorship of one segment of the population over everyone else, and because it seems the people realize it would cause problems for some people, and we need to be careful to find suitable replacements before we ban things. A lot of the tech I imagine you are…

I think part of the issue is that it is too affordable. The whole free content, free email, free infrastructure got us into current mess to begin with and since advertising was the only place that paid, now it is a part of the landscape. But on that front, pendulum may be swinging the other way.

And privacy itself is one of those terms that can easily led into a very broad discussion unless it is not clearly defined from the outset.

Nah, as a society we were very permissive for the past two decades at least. It is time for tech to grow up and join the rest of the mature industries.

Sadly true. I am currently on Pine ( postmarketos ) since my main phone died. I absolutely love the idea and I keep trying to support it when I have a chance, but it is still not ready for prime time ( and I am not good enough to contribute in code ).

And this is why spying - ekh, totally voluntary data collection - should just be verbotten. We have seen where this road leads and it is not fun long term.

Re: What happens when your phone is spying on you

#78

I found this article very shallow. It covers only spyware that are installed when a device is physically compromised. I was hoping it would cover spy/malware that install remotely through many more infection vectors like clicking text messages. I guess NSO/Pegasus malware has this capability. I barely use any apps and would gladly settle for a flip phone... I value privacy more than the ability to order food through…

> I value privacy more than the ability to order food through my phone. I know you didn't mean it like this, but I find it funny that it reads like we've abandoned the idea of calling a restaurant and just talking to a person to order takeaway.

The sad thing is that even if you do that, the restaurants are now almost guaranteed to use your phone as unique identifier and use that data for, hopefully, their own purposes ( hopefully, because the lure of selling data might be too much ).

Re: What happens when your phone is spying on you

#79

I found this article very shallow. It covers only spyware that are installed when a device is physically compromised. I was hoping it would cover spy/malware that install remotely through many more infection vectors like clicking text messages. I guess NSO/Pegasus malware has this capability. I barely use any apps and would gladly settle for a flip phone... I value privacy more than the ability to order food through…

[dead]

Re: What happens when your phone is spying on you

#80

I found this article very shallow. It covers only spyware that are installed when a device is physically compromised. I was hoping it would cover spy/malware that install remotely through many more infection vectors like clicking text messages. I guess NSO/Pegasus malware has this capability. I barely use any apps and would gladly settle for a flip phone... I value privacy more than the ability to order food through…

This is a standard university press-release style article about a paper accepted at PETS:

https://www.sysnet.ucsd.edu/~voelker/pubs/spyware-pets23.pdf

It's academic research, so this thread here expressing disappointment about the article is weird. We should probably just replace the press release with a link to the study itself.

From the abstract:

. In this work, we perform an in-depth technical analysis of 14 distinct leading mobile spyware apps targeting Android phones. We document the range of mechanisms used to monitor user activity of various kinds (e.g., photos, text messages, live microphone access) — primarily through the creative abuse of Android APIs. We also discover previously undocumented methods these apps use to hide from detection and to achieve persistence.

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