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Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

blog.alexellis.io

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Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#331

Post by aprdm »

hoherd wrote: post #320
ohgodplsno wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you could, you know, host a Docker registry and reupload those images to something you control. Worst case scenario, in 30 days, nothing is gone from Docker and you can just spin it down. Your job as an SRE is not to look at things and go "oh well, nothing we can do lol".

Imagine you shipped software that included references to docker hub images. That software will no longer work if any of the referenced images are deleted from docker hub. This will be the case with any helm charts that reference images that are deleted from docker hub. Some of those charts will not have variables that let you override the docker images and tags, so some of those will not be usable without creating a…

Yes vendor them all too.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#332

Post by dahdum »

sergiotapia wrote: post #235
dbingham wrote: post #230

As an SRE Manager, this is causing me a hell of a headache this morning. In 30 days a bunch of images we depend on may just disappear. We mostly depend on images from relatively large organizations (`alpine`, `node`, `golang`, etc), so one would want to believe that we'll be fine - they're all either in the open source program or will pay. But I can't hang my hat on that. If those images disappear, we lose the abilit…

If your business is depending on these open source projects to exist, shouldn't you be paying them so they can then pay for Docker?

Not every open source project wants to deal with donations / payments that could force incorporation, tax filings, bank accounts, credit/debit cards, and other paperwork. I certainly wouldn't want to deal with that for a side project.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#333

Post by friendzis »

dbingham wrote: post #230

As an SRE Manager, this is causing me a hell of a headache this morning. In 30 days a bunch of images we depend on may just disappear. We mostly depend on images from relatively large organizations (`alpine`, `node`, `golang`, etc), so one would want to believe that we'll be fine - they're all either in the open source program or will pay. But I can't hang my hat on that. If those images disappear, we lose the abilit…

> If those images disappear, we lose the ability to release and that's not acceptable.

left-pad moment once again.

> I mean, 30 days isn't enough time to find alternatives and migrate.

Maybe take control of mission critical dependencies and self-host?

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#334

Post by tyler33 »

dbingham wrote: post #230

As an SRE Manager, this is causing me a hell of a headache this morning. In 30 days a bunch of images we depend on may just disappear. We mostly depend on images from relatively large organizations (`alpine`, `node`, `golang`, etc), so one would want to believe that we'll be fine - they're all either in the open source program or will pay. But I can't hang my hat on that. If those images disappear, we lose the abilit…

the bad thing about other computers, could happen to everybody, it is harder to use your machine but better long termn

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#335

Post by pmarreck »

Kinrany wrote: post #293
pmarreck wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> worlds better than the old ways of managing dependencies and making sure everyone on a project is aligned on what versions of things are installed. And Nix is worlds better than even this . Imagine!

Does Nix have an equivalent of docker-compose yet? nix-shell is amazing for installing binaries, but actually wiring up and running the services doesn't seem like a solved problem. Unless Nix expects a separate tool to do this once binaries are installed, of course.

docker-compose seems necessary only because you have your "official postgres dockerfile" and your self-built "web app dockerfile" (and maybe other things like an ElasticSearch dockerfile)

Docker files seem necessary only because... well put it this way, think of a Docker image as "the cached result of a build that just so happened to succeed even though it was entirely likely not to, because Docker builds are NOT deterministic."

Now enter Nix, where builds are more or less guaranteed to work deterministically. You don't need to cache them into an "image" (well, the artifacts do get cached locally and online at places like https://www.cachix.org/), and the only reason they can do that is because they too are deterministically guaranteed to succeed, more or less), which means you can just include any and all services you need. (Unless they need to run as separate machines/VM's... in which case I suppose you just manage 2 nix files, but yes, "composing" in that case is not really fleshed out as a thing in Nix, to my knowledge)

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#336

Post by account42 »

richardwhiuk wrote: post #329
petesergeant wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> escrowing Are you sure this is what you mean? Escrow is a type of contactual arrangement, one type of which is agreeing with a commercial partner that you get a copy of their source-code if they go broke. I feel like you mean vendoring.

[flagged]

"Vendoring" is a term of art that is used to describe incorporating third party dependencies into your (source code) repository. While not a perfect fit it seems close enough - closer than escrowing where typically a third party that has no immediate use for the artifict is the one holding it.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#337

Post by broast »

ohgodplsno wrote: post #300
mynameisvlad wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we not allowed to complain about unnecessary unplanned work being foisted on us with 30 days notice? That seems like an entirely relevant complaint for this forum but from your first reply, you’re acting like somehow it’s the greatest offense in the world that someone pointed this out.

Come on, 30 days notice is a walk in the park. Additionally, OP was the one complaining that changing a few URLs and eventually spinning up a new server. It's quite literally a one day or two job, unless you're at a company the size of Amazon (in which case, luckily for you, you're not the only SRE, so it's still just a few days). > The best I can come up with, at the moment, is waiting for each organization to make…

What if you already have important planned and unplanned urgent work occupying all your SRE'S for the month? On a team or org that's already running thin? Surely you've been there.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#338

Post by unilynx »

It seems to me that the only thing more devastating for a lot of developers would be npmjs.com blowing up like this because they desperately needed funding. But they got acquired by parties in no rush to profit off them

Why didn't any of the big tech acquire Docker and their registry? They don't appear to be less interesting than npmjs considering technology or ecosystem. Did they resist being acquired and has the opportunity passed ?

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#339

Post by albert_e »

jmac01 wrote: post #325

I havent used docker but my understanding is that dockerhub hosts docker images which are essentially just text files? Would that be something that cud just be migrated to another platform easily or does dockerhub do a lot of other things too?

dockerfile is a text file spec on how to build a docker image.

a container image (analogous to a VM snapshot) is built from a dockerfile.

but dockers hub contains the actual images (that run into MBs and GBs) not just dockerfiles.

most dockerfiles don't build an image from scratch. they start with a "FROM" keyword that references an existing pre-built image and then adds some layers of files and configuration on top.

everytime you build a containerized app, your build scripts first pull down the latest pre-built base image referenced by your app's dockerfile.

so a image registry like docker hub is core and essential for thousands of build pipelines and automation that run across thousands of companies globally.

there are some alternatives like Amazon ECR, and private registries hosted by big companies on their own.

but a lot of projects and pipelines still depend on public images of commonly used ones like Linux flavours and distros maintained by various teams.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#340

Post by account42 »

hoherd wrote: post #320
ohgodplsno wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you could, you know, host a Docker registry and reupload those images to something you control. Worst case scenario, in 30 days, nothing is gone from Docker and you can just spin it down. Your job as an SRE is not to look at things and go "oh well, nothing we can do lol".

Imagine you shipped software that included references to docker hub images. That software will no longer work if any of the referenced images are deleted from docker hub. This will be the case with any helm charts that reference images that are deleted from docker hub. Some of those charts will not have variables that let you override the docker images and tags, so some of those will not be usable without creating a…

[flagged]
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