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Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

blog.alexellis.io

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Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#261

Post by r3trohack3r »

aembleton wrote: post #253
screamingninja wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BitTorrent will solve the distribution problem but not magically provide more storage. Someone still has to foot the bill for storing gigabytes (or terabytes) worth of docker images.

Have a free client that seeds any images that you download, and a paid for one that doesn't. Now you have all those who don't want to pay providing your storage and bandwidth.

This is an excellent use of p2p incentives. Share to pay.

Tricky bit is, for some users, you’ll either abandon them with no way to share or you will still be paying their ingress/egress fees when their client falls back to your TURN server if NAT hole punching fails.

You’ll also have to solve image expiration gracefully. Hosting a “publish as much as you want” append-only ledger isn’t going to scale infinitely. There needs to be garbage collection, rate limiting, fair-use policies, moderation, etc. Otherwise you’re still going to outstrip your storage pool.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#262

Post by petesergeant »

richardwhiuk wrote: post #234
dbingham wrote: post #230

As an SRE Manager, this is causing me a hell of a headache this morning. In 30 days a bunch of images we depend on may just disappear. We mostly depend on images from relatively large organizations (`alpine`, `node`, `golang`, etc), so one would want to believe that we'll be fine - they're all either in the open source program or will pay. But I can't hang my hat on that. If those images disappear, we lose the abilit…

You should be escrowing any Docker images you depend on, I'd have thought.

> escrowing

Are you sure this is what you mean? Escrow is a type of contactual arrangement, one type of which is agreeing with a commercial partner that you get a copy of their source-code if they go broke.

I feel like you mean vendoring.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#263

Post by pshirshov »

voytec wrote: post #222
t344344 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ridiculous US travel visa obtaining issues Ridiculous? This is pretty common issue for anyone who travels to US. Visa may be denied for whatever reason and tough luck on appeal. I am EU citizen and had similar experience just for visiting Iran on tourist trip. Do not even ask about guys from India, Pakistan or less fortunate countries. And it got even worse with pandemic. US required vaccination for very long time,…

I applied for US travel visa as a citizen of Poland in 2012 and was denied travel due to "wrong type of visa". I was planning to visit my employer and spend 1-2 weeks traveling across the country. Apparently both business and travel visas were inappropriate for these purposes. To add, I was questioned in a US consulate/embassy (can't remember) in Warsaw by a person who repeatedly refused to speak in English, insisted…

I believe that B1/B2 should work just fine for these purposes.

Probably you answered an officer (or airline worker) that you were gonna "work" there, not just visit your employer for an event?

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#264

Post by misterS »

majewsky wrote: post #76
quaintdev wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Podman is great and is first class citizen on Fedora. It also integrates nicely with SystemD. My only gripe with it is not many developers provide podman configuration on their install pages like they do with docker compose

Tangent: Why is the misspelling "SystemD" so common, when it has always been "systemd"? I would understand "Systemd" or "SYSTEMD" or something, but why specifically this weird spelling?

Instinctively applying Pascal case, maybe?

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#265

Post by armchairhacker »

ridruejo wrote: post #97

Without entering into the specifics of this situation, I don’t understand the hate for Docker the company. They are providing a huge service for the community and looking for ways to make money from it to make it sustainable. I would give them a bit more empathy/benefit of the doubt as they iterate on their approach. Somewhere, somehow, someone has to pay for that storage and bandwidth whether directly or indirectly…

I agree they deserve to get paid, but there are better ways than essentially holding customers’ data and URLs hostage. The problem is they are trying to extract money from other open-source developers who are at least as cash-strapped as them.

Plus, I doubt they will get many people to actually start paying. People will simply move to other storage (like Github) and switch the URLs. Docker is fully open-source and works without docker.io, they don’t really have a position here except owning the name.

IMO they just need to edit / clarify that open-source developers and organizations won’t need to pay, only those who presumably should have the funds. And take a more passive stance: bug people with annoying messages like Wikipedia does, and threaten shutting down docker.io altogether if they don’t somehow get funding (some people will complain about this too but more will understand and will be sympathetic). Wikimedia, Unix/Linux, Mozilla, etc. as well as Homebrew/cURL/Rust all seem to be doing fine as nonprofits without creating huge controversies like this.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#266

Post by cosmojg »

kachnuv_ocasek wrote: post #195
majewsky wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangent: Why is the misspelling "SystemD" so common, when it has always been "systemd"? I would understand "Systemd" or "SYSTEMD" or something, but why specifically this weird spelling?

I've always thought of it as in analogy to System V.

Nah, it's French.

> System D is a manner of responding to challenges that require one to have the ability to think quickly, to adapt, and to improvise when getting a job done.

> The term is a direct translation of French Système D. The letter D refers to any one of the French nouns débrouille, débrouillardise or démerde (French slang). The verbs se débrouiller and se démerder mean to make do, to manage, especially in an adverse situation. Basically, it refers to one's ability and need to be resourceful.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_D

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#267

Post by r3trohack3r »

RobotToaster wrote: post #92
JonChesterfield wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to use a distributed system instead of a centralised one. Probably built on a source control system that can handle that.

This seems like a perfect use case for IPFS.

We had a prototype Docker/BuildKit registry using IPFS at Netflix built by Edgar.

https://github.com/hinshun/ipcs

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#268

Post by cratermoon »

robszumski wrote: post #218
maccard wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a self inflicted problem by docker hub squatting the root namespace, though.

This was the initial pebble that lead to Podman existing via Red Hat. No Red Hat customer wanted to pull or push to DockerHub by default due to a typo. No PRs would be accepted to change it and after dealing with customer frustration over and over...

I'm not familiar with the 'root namespace squatting' or the typo issue. Do you mean the image namespace as described here: https://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=2464012&seq... or is there something else? What sort of typo would cause problems?

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#269

Post by jdxcode »

t344344 wrote: post #207
voytec wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Docker should have been a neat tool made by one enthusiast, just like curl is. I have nothing but mad respect for Daniel Stenberg. 25 years of development of great software, for which he had been threatened[1] and had ridiculous US travel visa obtaining issues[2]. [1] https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2021/02/19/i-will-slaughter-you/ [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26192025 [2] https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2020/1…

> ridiculous US travel visa obtaining issues Ridiculous? This is pretty common issue for anyone who travels to US. Visa may be denied for whatever reason and tough luck on appeal. I am EU citizen and had similar experience just for visiting Iran on tourist trip. Do not even ask about guys from India, Pakistan or less fortunate countries. And it got even worse with pandemic. US required vaccination for very long time,…

Ridiculous does not mean uncommon. Situations can be both common and ridiculous (absurd).

I'm American, but I have enough friends and family from other countries (my wife is an Iranian passport holder) to know what you're talking about and how difficult it can be.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#270

Post by robertlagrant »

raesene9 wrote: post #105
robertlagrant wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. The core devs should create a new company and focus just on the tools, with a simple, scaling licence model for them. As far as DockerHub goes, the OSS hosting costs do need to be solved, but surely they can be.

I'm not sure it's easy. We're seeing other open source projects like Kubernetes struggle with hosting costs, and that's just one project. Ideally it'd be great to see the industry fund it, but with budget cuts in tech. I'm not sure that'll happen...

I haven't seen that, but I haven't been following along. I'd assumed they would be very Google-funded still. Is it a general CNCF problem?
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