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A Philosopher on Drugs

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Re: A Philosopher on Drugs

#41

Post by thinkingemote »

its_ethan wrote: post #4

> But goodness, here I am, still philosophizing like a stoned undergrad in a black-lighted dorm room. Mhmm. Genuine question, and maybe it's just something I'd have to experience to really understand, but why is it so common for people to think psychedelics are opening us up to what is ""real"" or some deeper truth, instead of assuming that the experiences are just what happens when you completely overload brain chem…

Psychedelics feel like they open our minds to more information from reality but they actually close the mind in a way that the mind hallucinates to fill in the gaps. Visually its easier to see. I suppose it works in other ways too such as motivational centres of the brain, meaning, aim, purpose - the brain invents new things.

In doing so it gives a perspective about these things, it shows us that they are variable in a way.

They show us that they are variables in a computer program rather than part of the framework that cannot be changed. (The variables are still mostly constants however in the real world!)

Re: A Philosopher on Drugs

#42

Post by mettamage »

its_ethan wrote: post #4

> But goodness, here I am, still philosophizing like a stoned undergrad in a black-lighted dorm room. Mhmm. Genuine question, and maybe it's just something I'd have to experience to really understand, but why is it so common for people to think psychedelics are opening us up to what is ""real"" or some deeper truth, instead of assuming that the experiences are just what happens when you completely overload brain chem…

I don’t, I feel we’re quieter crowd as we don’t experience it as mind-boggling compared to the crowd that believes the universe is one. I learned a lot though, mostly about how I think

Re: A Philosopher on Drugs

#43

Post by eimrine »

> There is something strange in the disinterest philosophers show for experimentation with mind-altering drugs—or at least for talking about their experimentation publicly.

Maybe because both activities are illegal in almost all over the world? So sad that we are being ruled by not philosophers.

Re: A Philosopher on Drugs

#44

Post by mettamage »

akhosravian wrote: post #32
its_ethan wrote: post #4

> But goodness, here I am, still philosophizing like a stoned undergrad in a black-lighted dorm room. Mhmm. Genuine question, and maybe it's just something I'd have to experience to really understand, but why is it so common for people to think psychedelics are opening us up to what is ""real"" or some deeper truth, instead of assuming that the experiences are just what happens when you completely overload brain chem…

Here’s an excerpt from Michael Pollan’s book How to Change Your Mind. The psychologist here is a woman approximately his age (early 60s at the time) who he describes as a prominent psychologist: >Specifically, the psychologist felt that LSD gave her insight into how young children perceive the world. Kids’ perceptions are not mediated by expectations and conventions in the been-there, done-that way that adult percept…

I experienced truffles like this on half a dose (what they sell in the smartshops of Amsterdam). Not on a full dose though

Re: A Philosopher on Drugs

#45

Post by mettamage »

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #14
its_ethan wrote: post #4

> But goodness, here I am, still philosophizing like a stoned undergrad in a black-lighted dorm room. Mhmm. Genuine question, and maybe it's just something I'd have to experience to really understand, but why is it so common for people to think psychedelics are opening us up to what is ""real"" or some deeper truth, instead of assuming that the experiences are just what happens when you completely overload brain chem…

> but why is it so common for people to think psychedelics are opening us up to what is ""real"" That's a great question. I think it's that psychedelics can cause profound changes to the way you perceive yourself and the world, and the insights from those experiences can be genuinely useful in practical and measurable ways. I haven't had an experience like that with sugar. For example, my mom dying was extremely upse…

Damn, this strikes a chord without having a remotely similar experience. Thanks for sharing :)

Re: A Philosopher on Drugs

#46

Post by mettamage »

eep_social wrote: post #19
its_ethan wrote: post #4

> But goodness, here I am, still philosophizing like a stoned undergrad in a black-lighted dorm room. Mhmm. Genuine question, and maybe it's just something I'd have to experience to really understand, but why is it so common for people to think psychedelics are opening us up to what is ""real"" or some deeper truth, instead of assuming that the experiences are just what happens when you completely overload brain chem…

Another angle that others have not mentioned is the similarity in outcome and experience between psychedelics and deep, extended mediation practice. The snootier mediation folks will dismiss psychedelics as a shortcut while still agreeing about the experience and outcome. As other replies have pointed out, the similarity is that both options enable an individual to examine and even change their perceptions. The medit…

> The meditation method is slower and gives the brain a lot of time and support for adjusting to this new perception.

False sense of security right here. This is a necessary but not sufficient condition, Speaking from experience.

I tried both, I still meditate. I feel psilocybin is definitely more dangerous but the insanity that meditation can bring can be very dangerous as well (in my case flared up narcissism that was about to express itself as very deep painful comments to my closest family, thankfully I kept my mouth shut. And not recognizing myself in the mirror). This was after a retreat and 3 hours of practice for one month, while also not being able to embed meditation in my philosophical framework. So I experimented with not thinking at all and just experiencing sensations on my body. I got so good at both that it got me crazy. I use more common sense nowadays :)

Though truffles takes the cake: seeing your SO believing you’re gonna end her life and me running after her to keep her safe and hugging her for 10 minutes straight saying “I love you” until she finally believed me, that was scary as hell. In the end it was a positive experience, but that moment wasn’t riskless and showed me the importance of a tripsitter

Re: A Philosopher on Drugs

#47

Post by krimpenrik »

mettamage wrote: post #44
akhosravian wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here’s an excerpt from Michael Pollan’s book How to Change Your Mind. The psychologist here is a woman approximately his age (early 60s at the time) who he describes as a prominent psychologist: >Specifically, the psychologist felt that LSD gave her insight into how young children perceive the world. Kids’ perceptions are not mediated by expectations and conventions in the been-there, done-that way that adult percept…

I experienced truffles like this on half a dose (what they sell in the smartshops of Amsterdam). Not on a full dose though

This is why quantity matters. All conversations around drugs (non addictive like shrooms, LSD) don't account for quantity.

It's like talking about alcohol and assuming you shoot 2 bottles of vodka in your throat.

I am happy the microdosing community is changing this somewhat.

Re: A Philosopher on Drugs

#48

Post by EmilyHughes »

antonvs wrote: post #36
EmilyHughes wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 Points to consider. 1. Brain scan shows that the brain activity is acutally decreasing on psychedelics. 2. Most people hold a hidden assumption that the sober state is more truthful, which really can't be proven.

But it can be proven: that’s what science does. We perform experiments to verify in multiple ways that the theories about the world that we’ve developed are consistent with the evidence. In contrast, if you believe that e.g. the machine elves some people see on DMT are real, there are all sorts of experiments you could do to test that. But not many people bother to try, because at some level they know they’re not rea…

>if you believe that e.g. the machine elves some people see on DMT are real, there are all sorts of experiments you could do to test that

Well you can't even proof that any human you encounter in a sober state is "real". Scienctific theories are predictions and don't tell you anything about metaphysical truth. For all you know you could be plugged into the matrix, right?

Re: A Philosopher on Drugs

#49

Post by mehwoot »

daseiner1 wrote: post #29
mehwoot wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why is it so common for people to think psychedelics are opening us up to what is ""real"" or some deeper truth Because the very changes in brain chemistry you're talking about affect your ability to determine whether something is real or not. Many psychedelics cause Apophenia, Pareidolia and other disorders. In loose terms, the ability of your brain to determine what information is meaningful or not is affected and…

I presume you haven’t done psychedelics?

Why do you say that

Re: A Philosopher on Drugs

#50

Post by cykros »

its_ethan wrote: post #4

> But goodness, here I am, still philosophizing like a stoned undergrad in a black-lighted dorm room. Mhmm. Genuine question, and maybe it's just something I'd have to experience to really understand, but why is it so common for people to think psychedelics are opening us up to what is ""real"" or some deeper truth, instead of assuming that the experiences are just what happens when you completely overload brain chem…

Psychedelics don't make you see reality. They give you a different perspective than the one you usually have, in a way that is more pronounced than something as simple as a sugar high. They also have a tendency to make you a bit more curious in a way say, a drunken stupor doesn't, or a hyper focus stimulant buzz doesn't.

And the effect can cascade as well, because while the perspective shift is going to apply directly only to some pretty direct stimuli, when you build the habit of questioning your first impressions, or things you've heard repeated or repeated to yourself ad infinitum, it can have some far reaching effects.

So no, psychedelics don't reveal the truth. They just sometimes encourage people to actually look for it. There are plenty of non-chemical stimuli that can do the same thing of course (or at least, non-external chemical stimuli), such as some vacations, feats of athleticism (marathons, thru hikes, perhaps even sky-diving). Really anywhere where you step outside your usual routine, set aside preconceived notions, and just allow a bit of novelty in.

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