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A Philosopher on Drugs

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Re: A Philosopher on Drugs

#21

Post by thou324io234 »

its_ethan wrote: post #4

> But goodness, here I am, still philosophizing like a stoned undergrad in a black-lighted dorm room. Mhmm. Genuine question, and maybe it's just something I'd have to experience to really understand, but why is it so common for people to think psychedelics are opening us up to what is ""real"" or some deeper truth, instead of assuming that the experiences are just what happens when you completely overload brain chem…

Eastern traditions warn you heavily about going down this path, atleast not without guidance.

This is why I cringe everytime some illiterate moron in the West steals something that piques his interest (vipassana, yoga, tantra, kamasutra etc.) and runs with it after divorcing everything that the practice was originally situated in.

Ultimately, the outputs of occidental philosophers these days aren't even that interesting. It's mostly just justifying whatever is in vogue, and nothing more. Very cringey social-climbing.

Re: A Philosopher on Drugs

#22

Post by maCDzP »

its_ethan wrote: post #4

> But goodness, here I am, still philosophizing like a stoned undergrad in a black-lighted dorm room. Mhmm. Genuine question, and maybe it's just something I'd have to experience to really understand, but why is it so common for people to think psychedelics are opening us up to what is ""real"" or some deeper truth, instead of assuming that the experiences are just what happens when you completely overload brain chem…

My take on this is that the drugs make the feelings and experience so strong it must be real. It’s so overwhelmingly strong that it must be real, because it feels real.

But it’s still a hallucination.

On the other hand it could enable new strong feelings towards things that before didn’t elicit those feelings. And you get a new perspective on those things. Which could be a good thing if you are depressed for example.

Re: A Philosopher on Drugs

#24

Post by andsoitis »

kyleyeats wrote: post #6
its_ethan wrote: post #4

> But goodness, here I am, still philosophizing like a stoned undergrad in a black-lighted dorm room. Mhmm. Genuine question, and maybe it's just something I'd have to experience to really understand, but why is it so common for people to think psychedelics are opening us up to what is ""real"" or some deeper truth, instead of assuming that the experiences are just what happens when you completely overload brain chem…

I'm a philosopher and drug user. I can answer this! We have three selves: Our self, the self-in-the-world and the self-in-society. Think of a pathos, logos and ethos take on the self. Mushrooms and pot both cripple our self-in-society which lets us more fully explore the other two. Basically, you can't know who you are until you stop seeing yourself through the filter of others. Drugs let you do that. It's like how y…

For me, losing the self (ego death) is even more freeing than losing just the other two perspectives.

Re: A Philosopher on Drugs

#25

Post by EmilyHughes »

its_ethan wrote: post #4

> But goodness, here I am, still philosophizing like a stoned undergrad in a black-lighted dorm room. Mhmm. Genuine question, and maybe it's just something I'd have to experience to really understand, but why is it so common for people to think psychedelics are opening us up to what is ""real"" or some deeper truth, instead of assuming that the experiences are just what happens when you completely overload brain chem…

2 Points to consider.

1. Brain scan shows that the brain activity is acutally decreasing on psychedelics.

2. Most people hold a hidden assumption that the sober state is more truthful, which really can't be proven.

Re: A Philosopher on Drugs

#27

Post by Maursault »

maCDzP wrote: post #22
its_ethan wrote: post #4

> But goodness, here I am, still philosophizing like a stoned undergrad in a black-lighted dorm room. Mhmm. Genuine question, and maybe it's just something I'd have to experience to really understand, but why is it so common for people to think psychedelics are opening us up to what is ""real"" or some deeper truth, instead of assuming that the experiences are just what happens when you completely overload brain chem…

My take on this is that the drugs make the feelings and experience so strong it must be real. It’s so overwhelmingly strong that it must be real, because it feels real. But it’s still a hallucination. On the other hand it could enable new strong feelings towards things that before didn’t elicit those feelings. And you get a new perspective on those things. Which could be a good thing if you are depressed for example.

> But it’s still a hallucination.

Not to undermine your point, which is fine, but hallucinations are rare. Pseudo-hallucinations are pretty common, but usually what it is that is experienced, which you describe accurately, is technically delusion, i.e. thinking something that feels very real, an irresistible self-deception, as opposed to literally seeing and/or hearing it.

Re: A Philosopher on Drugs

#28

Post by sam2426679 »

its_ethan wrote: post #4

> But goodness, here I am, still philosophizing like a stoned undergrad in a black-lighted dorm room. Mhmm. Genuine question, and maybe it's just something I'd have to experience to really understand, but why is it so common for people to think psychedelics are opening us up to what is ""real"" or some deeper truth, instead of assuming that the experiences are just what happens when you completely overload brain chem…

> why is it so common for people to think psychedelics are opening us up to what is ""real"" or some deeper truth, instead of assuming that the experiences are just what happens when you completely overload brain chemistry in a specific way?

Why do you think this as an xor?

Re: A Philosopher on Drugs

#29

Post by daseiner1 »

mehwoot wrote: post #11
its_ethan wrote: post #4

> But goodness, here I am, still philosophizing like a stoned undergrad in a black-lighted dorm room. Mhmm. Genuine question, and maybe it's just something I'd have to experience to really understand, but why is it so common for people to think psychedelics are opening us up to what is ""real"" or some deeper truth, instead of assuming that the experiences are just what happens when you completely overload brain chem…

why is it so common for people to think psychedelics are opening us up to what is ""real"" or some deeper truth Because the very changes in brain chemistry you're talking about affect your ability to determine whether something is real or not. Many psychedelics cause Apophenia, Pareidolia and other disorders. In loose terms, the ability of your brain to determine what information is meaningful or not is affected and…

I presume you haven’t done psychedelics?

Re: A Philosopher on Drugs

#30

Post by tmnvix »

its_ethan wrote: post #4

> But goodness, here I am, still philosophizing like a stoned undergrad in a black-lighted dorm room. Mhmm. Genuine question, and maybe it's just something I'd have to experience to really understand, but why is it so common for people to think psychedelics are opening us up to what is ""real"" or some deeper truth, instead of assuming that the experiences are just what happens when you completely overload brain chem…

I imagine one reason would be that changing your perception changes your perspective.

Imagine losing your sight. You would likely gain some insight due to having a new perspective on the world, due to a change of focus (for want of a better word).

I'm not suggesting that this is all that is involved, but I think it's a simple enough idea to relate to.

Another example might be that you 'forget' many of the typical human conceptual abstractions that we use to view things as discrete, giving you a stronger sense of connection or relatedness. This can spark insights that you otherwise might not have.

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