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Live-caption glasses let deaf people read conversations [video]

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Re: Live-caption glasses let deaf people read conversations [video]

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you're making my comment out to be a lot more hostile than it was intended. I don't see any "problem" with deaf people. I see ASL as, effectively, a foreign language; and it makes sense to me that in general, you're able to live more effectively when you can speak the same language as the people around you. When I traveled overseas to a spanish-speaking country, I learned spanish so that I could communica…

I’m not sure how you can read hostility into my comment when I plainly stated I didn’t think you were commenting with ill intent. Ignorance doesn’t require intent though. ASL isn’t a “foreign” language. It’s an American language. In fact, it’s more “American” than English. People who communicate via ASL aren’t foreigners on holiday. They’re our friends and family and neighbors. You are absolutely correct in your assu…

That's fair. It's easy to read hostility where there isn't any.

> ASL isn’t a “foreign” language. It’s an American language.

Elsewhere in this thread you mentioned that "ASL is a complete and distinct natural language in its own right," and that's the sense I was trying to convey by calling it a "foreign" language. It's as hard to acquire as a foreign language, and carries the same benefits. And it fit the analogy.

I appreciate both of your analogies, but I think they aren't quite fair. Not going to the massive effort of learning a new language isn't really the same as 'refusing to engage'. And the analogies seem to understate the effort involved by everyone who is not deaf to learn ASL. It's just not as easy as installing curb cuts (I could probably do one of those in an afternoon...become conversational in ASL? not so much).

I guess, to me, it comes down to the level of effort being asked of me. I'm happy to be accommodating, up to a point. Let's engage in whatever medium is most suited. But asking me to put in the massive time and intellectual commitment of learning a new language is past that point. And I think that's the case for a lot of other people as well; maybe most.

> If someone who uses a wheelchair wants to use the sidewalk they should just try fucking walking right? I don’t know why no one has thought of that!

I had a relative who was deaf. An engineer. He learned to lip read, and that gave him more freedom to work with others and be effective in communities that did not know ASL.

Re: Live-caption glasses let deaf people read conversations [video]

#112

What are the privacy/security issues with this? Does this mean every conversation a person wearing these has (or that occurs within earshot) is being collected and harvested by someone? Will the AR be used to insert ads into people's conversations or plaster images of ads all over the place? Will certain words or phrases be automatically censored? This is cool tech, that could be used to help people, but it comes wit…

We've taken a privacy-first approach here. All data is only ever stored on the device, owned by the user, inaccessible to us. It's only ever transcribing when a user asks it to and only stored if the user asks it to be. We don't censor anything. We are soon to release purely on-device transcription, but the quality of this is still not as good as the cloud providers offer. The app itself is what powers the glasses, t…

> We don't censor anything.

I hadn't thought that you would be, but I don't know anyone who hasn't had at least one service they used change their terms for the worse over time, especially once it becomes successful or ownership/management changes. Better to safeguard against such problems before they are problems than come to depend on a device like this only to find yourself stuck when the rug gets pulled out from under you.

> We are soon to release purely on-device transcription

This is really great! It's so important that people don't have to worry that things said between them and a lover, or a doctor, or a client, or a therapist is going to end up exposed to anyone else.

If you really want this device to be able to help people without opening them up to exploitation, please try to develop it to be as open as possible. Making it easy for developers to use it with whatever other hardware they like (a PC vs a cell phone), or even allowing them to extend it by adding new or customized functionality would be ideal and could help people in ways you hadn't even considered.

This is a cool product and a great use of the technology, and I'd love to be able to recommend it without reservation.

Re: Live-caption glasses let deaf people read conversations [video]

#114
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"most" is an interesting choice of word here. It's true. 70% of deaf children learn to read English [1]. But I don't think that's enough to consider it a safe assumption. [1] https://www.handsandvoices.org/articles/education/advocacy/w...

Why isn't it more than 70%? I'm assuming this is in an english language majority language, so everyone that can should want to be able to read english.

Because learning written English isn't easy when the sounds it represents are not part of your sensory experience. It's more like learning Egyptian hieroglyphics. Plus many parents either can't or won't invest the effort/money to make it happen. Lots of parents never even learn ASL to communicate with their own kids. Met a mother in a beginner ASL class finally deciding to learn enough to communicate with her 20 year old daughter (Who was born deaf and illiterate FTR). It broke my heart when I met the daughter and found out she basically had no exposure to other signers too. Deaf all her life and she didn't have a name-sign.

There's "cognitive impairment" and then there's "nobody bothered to communicate enough for a kid to build communication skills."

Re: Live-caption glasses let deaf people read conversations [video]

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect (and hope) you had no ill intent but this comment is really ignorant. There is a terrible history of Deaf people being discriminated against and forced to “lip read” rather than communicate through ASL. And by “forced” I mean they were more or less mentally and physically tortured into compliance. Your comment not only perpetuates this totally false narrative that there’s a “problem” with ASL but it makes i…

There’s nothing inherent to the world we have built that’s stopping deaf people using the Internet in their own languages. Yet there’s no ASL Wikipedia. Why not?

There is in fact a test ASL Wikipedia on the Wikimedia Incubator, written in Sutton SignWriting. One of the issues is that Sutton SignWriting is not yet fully supported by Unicode.

Re: Live-caption glasses let deaf people read conversations [video]

#116
post #79

What are the privacy/security issues with this? Does this mean every conversation a person wearing these has (or that occurs within earshot) is being collected and harvested by someone? Will the AR be used to insert ads into people's conversations or plaster images of ads all over the place? Will certain words or phrases be automatically censored? This is cool tech, that could be used to help people, but it comes wit…

I don't see how this is inherently worse than mobile phones, which are carried by everyone in the developed world all the time.

> I don't see how this is inherently worse than mobile phones,

the problem isn't that it's worse than a cell phone. The problem is that it isn't any better. All of the privacy and security problems that exist with cell phones now exist with this product. You're locked in to using a cell phone which, for most people, is a hardware platform that Google controls and exploits at your expense.

You can't secure your cell phone and keep it private, and so nothing on your cell phone should be assumed to be secure or private.

If I'm in my doctors office, or working with a client, or doing anything where I don't want Google and who knows who else listening I can turn off my phone, or put it away, or leave it at home, and be reasonably sure that I'm not being eavesdropped on (there's always some risk of three letter agencies listening, but you can't do anything about that), but that's not an option if I need my phone to transcribe every word being said to me and even in situations where I currently leave my phone on it isn't normally sending every word it hears to the cloud to transcribe and send back to me either.

I like that this can work with a cell phone app, but it'd be much better if it could be used entirely offline, and ideally on different hardware as well, including a PC.

Imagine being able to run something like this entirely offline connected to something the size of an ipod or even a nano running linux. Imagine being able to build your own tools to interface with it. Add your own substitutions/annotations to real time text. Add dictionaries, or translation features.

This could be really cool even life-changing tech for people, or it could just be one more technology that's convenient but ultimately used to exploit people.

Re: Live-caption glasses let deaf people read conversations [video]

#117
post #73
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree. There seems to be such a gap in the market for privacy-first hardware but very few companies are doing anything.

The key question is always a painfully simple one: how much are people willing to pay as a privacy-first premium? The answers to this determine everything. Treating privacy-first as the moral and ethical default we should expect everyone to start from is a wonderful idea, rooted in compassion, kindness, and a foundational respect for human rights. It has also been an abject failure to date. We should not expect the f…

> The key question is always a painfully simple one: how much are people willing to pay as a privacy-first premium?

the fact is that no amount of money a customer can pay will ever be worth more than taking that customer's money and then also selling every scrap of data that your product can get its hands on on top of it.

We need to stop accepting "But I can make more money by screwing you" as a valid excuse for how things are. It's true, but still not okay. If the economics are always going to favor exploiting people, than I guess if we don't want to be exploited we need some very powerful regulations and all of the oversight and enforcement that requires in place to change that situation. I'd prefer that to blind faith and optimism. Until then, there are a number of things we should be insisting on in products as consumers to help protect ourselves. "works offline" is a really good one in a lot of situations.

Re: Live-caption glasses let deaf people read conversations [video]

#119
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree. There seems to be such a gap in the market for privacy-first hardware but very few companies are doing anything.

Shameless plug: https://github.com/TeamOpenSmartGlasses/OpenSourceSmartGlass... ASR is done locally on the user's phone.

Bookmarked. I will follow with interest although not sure ASR done locally on phone guarantees data is not being uploaded to the cloud.

Re: Live-caption glasses let deaf people read conversations [video]

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many languages that don’t use a system of writing.

But there's not many that can't use a system of writing.

This is stupid and meaningless pedantry. Like when you ask your teacher if you can go to the bathroom and they say “I don’t know, can you?”

A system of writing can be used for any language. (Have you ever wondered why English, a Germanic language, or Vietnamese, an Austroasiatic language, use a writing system based on the Latin alphabet?) Any language that doesn’t use a system of writing can use a system of writing. It’s not like it’s some sort of existential impossibility.

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