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US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

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Re: US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

#171

Post by throwaway56960 »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #119
sourcecodeplz wrote: post #17

In Europe, you can't drive for Uber or deliver food without a standard work contract which includes: healthcare, pension, payroll and income taxes. Drivers here PAY private companies a weekly amount in order to work for Uber et all (to have that contract). Uber et all work with these companies only, not individuals.

Is healthcare in employment contracts actually standard in Europe?

Healthcare is completely separate from your employment in EU. It's your personal thing to sort out your health insurance, you just notify your employer when you make a change of insurer (because the employer is sending them your money).

In some states there's a national insurance plan, in some you have a tax-funded healthcare, and in some you have mandatory health insurance (with private insurers, based on your income, 15-30%).

Re: US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

#172

Post by Quinner »

p0pcult wrote: post #98
ChicagoDave wrote: post #78

Everyone seems to forget or disregard the fact that these lawsuits are paid for by the taxi industry. Even when they dig up a few Uber drivers, it’s all a sham. 70% of surveyed rideshare drivers prefer to be independent contractors. If there was a serious majority for employment, Uber and Lyft simply wouldn’t exist.

[flagged]

Before Uber (around 2010) LA County mandated that Taxis accept credit cards. I don't think I ever managed to get in a cab where the credit card reader wasn't mysteriously "broken."

Re: US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

#173

Post by salawat »

passthejoe wrote: post #151
jvanderbot wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fight over contractor status was versus regular employee status, which would require providing benefits. So, market rejoice, these driver folks are on their own. Editorializing a bit, but CA referendums are so silly. I was asked to vote to resolve an employee/employer dispute in kidney dialysis centers. There's so many of those types of things.

Labor unions seem to put that kidney dialysis measure on the ballot for every election, then they are outspent by more than 100-to-1 by the kidney dialysis companies on TV ads, and the measures never pass. Money wins, and the unions could spend more but they don't in this case.

Remember, unions are fundamentally limited to a warchest of some fraction of their memberships pooled income, while companies are propped up by investors YOLO'ing.

Unions by defintion have to focus on doing more outreach in ways that don't translate to throwing money at a problem and making it go away. Capital wielders will always have the advantage in that department.

Re: US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

#174

Post by stonogo »

chrisbolt wrote: post #163
BurningFrog wrote: post #129

The reality is that gig workers fit in neither of the legacy regulatory categories ("employee" or "contractor"). I expect we'll spend a few destructive decades thrashing around before legal systems have adapted to this invention.

If they’re not an employee, how are they not a contractor? What third thing is missing?

Contractors with an app

Re: US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

#175

Post by stonogo »

nunez wrote: post #82
TulliusCicero wrote: post #19

Gig workers aren't quite contractors and aren't quite employees. Maybe need a third class of worker.

the closest analog i can think of are paid volunteers like people who take usability studies. they have the flexibility of contractors (they can show up, work as much or as little as they want, and stop whenever they want) but their compensation is set by whomever requisitioned them.

That's still contract work, it's just shitty contract work. Do you think day laborers get to set their own rates? There is absolutely nothing unique about these operations in the US, except they have the sheen of SV exceptionalism.

Re: US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

#176

Post by stonogo »

BurningFrog wrote: post #129

The reality is that gig workers fit in neither of the legacy regulatory categories ("employee" or "contractor"). I expect we'll spend a few destructive decades thrashing around before legal systems have adapted to this invention.

Day labor existed long before Uber. There's no functional difference except the hiring agency pays by the job instead of by the day.

Re: US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

#177

Post by Rebelgecko »

Spivak wrote: post #95
mdorazio wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surveyed by whom and how was the question asked?

[flagged]

Huh? Prop 22 actually grants some of those things, while letting drivers continue to choose their own schedules*

*Technically being an employee wouldn't force Uber to give them schedules, BUT Uber would be forced to pay minimum wage for time drivers spend idle. Unless they wanted to throw money away, they'd be forced to start capping the # of active drivers, otherwise someone could drop off a stack of cell phones on Zyzzyx Road and make a $1k/day without having to actually pick up customers.

Re: US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

#178

Post by Rebelgecko »

Quinner wrote: post #172
p0pcult wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Before Uber (around 2010) LA County mandated that Taxis accept credit cards. I don't think I ever managed to get in a cab where the credit card reader wasn't mysteriously "broken."

Even if I told the driver when I was getting in that I'd be paying via CC, the machine would no longer be working by the time we got to my destination. Miraculously, by the time I said "wow sucks for you" and started opening the car door to leave, the machine would start working again (or in one case they had to call in my CC number, which might be the only time the machine was actually broken)

Re: US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

#179

Post by Rebelgecko »

joker99 wrote: post #71
iLoveOncall wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paid per hour, free to chose their working hours, free to work for multiple employers at the same time, etc. How are they not contractors? They're way more contractors than the contractors that were working 9 to 5, 5 days a week, for years, for my FAANG.

But the fee/payment is dictated by the company which takes away a significant part of autonomy I guess

Although they have the ability to turn down a ride if the fee isn't high enough, and the price will go up until someone accepts it. I see Uber drivers do this a lot in geofenced areas to jack up the price

Re: US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

#180

Post by oneplane »

SllX wrote: post #149
oneplane wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you're ignoring the thought experiment, let's see what remains in your reply. It sounds like you are reasoning that harm is fine when it morally shouldn't be, regardless of the technical (legislative, executive, judicial) track you're on. I believe that is bad.

You didn’t have a thought experiment, just a straw man. I thought I was clear on that point. Overwriting substantial portions of a law that took effect in 2020 with another law passed in 2020 isn’t “harmful” and doesn’t rank with your hypothetical anti-thumbs bill. > It sounds like you are reasoning that harm is fine when it morally shouldn't be That is exactly what I did not say, that is what you are attempting to r…

Nobody here is talking about nullifying votes (well except you), and your bad faith argumentation leaves no more room for actual conversation.
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