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US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

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Re: US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

#161

Post by pianoben »

arlort wrote: post #15
akira2501 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lawmakers cannot change if they so choose. Propositions amend the constitution of California. They can modify it, but they have to honor the rule itself and cannot simply remove it or abrogate it through this alteration. > Legislature can amend Proposition 22’s provisions with a statute passed by a seven-eighths majority in both houses, so long as the statute is “consistent with, and furthers the purpose of,” the ini…

> passed by a seven-eighths majority in both houses Holy mother of supermajorities ... What's the procedure for reversing a ballot measure? Can only be done via a different ballot measure?

Yeah, it's a high bar to clear, but they didn't have to include that in the proposition. If they hadn't, then legislature would be entirely unable to modify it.

Think about that before getting all fired up about 7/8 - most ballot initiatives completely exempt themselves from legislative amendment. That's the default.

Re: US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

#162

Post by themaninthedark »

uoaei wrote: post #8
CSMastermind wrote: post #2

https://www.courts.ca.gov/opinions/documents/A163655.PDF ^ Actual court ruling which is linked in the article itself. I find the article's headline misleading. The court ruled that a proposition that was passed by voters in California which classified these drivers as contractors was mostly constitutional and would be allowed to have the effect of law, noting that California's legislative branch was free to change th…

[flagged]

Congratulations, welcome to the effects of a direct democracy.

This is why I am opposed to the abolition of the Electoral Collage, you are going to end up with the same sort of effects where the many will have outsized power over the few.

Re: US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

#163

Post by chrisbolt »

BurningFrog wrote: post #129

The reality is that gig workers fit in neither of the legacy regulatory categories ("employee" or "contractor"). I expect we'll spend a few destructive decades thrashing around before legal systems have adapted to this invention.

If they’re not an employee, how are they not a contractor? What third thing is missing?

Re: US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

#164

Post by Fatnino »

jvanderbot wrote: post #75
diceduckmonk wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find the article's headline misleading. I see Uber stock is up 6% pre-market. That suggests to me investors thinks Uber's liabilities are reduced as a result of this ruling.

The fight over contractor status was versus regular employee status, which would require providing benefits. So, market rejoice, these driver folks are on their own. Editorializing a bit, but CA referendums are so silly. I was asked to vote to resolve an employee/employer dispute in kidney dialysis centers. There's so many of those types of things.

And you will be asked to vote on the kidney dialysis thing again and again. It's already been on the ballot 3-4 times. The voting public doesn't care for it and it's been soundly defeated each time.

I'm not really sure who's bankrolling it.

Re: US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

#165

Post by arlort »

pianoben wrote: post #161
arlort wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> passed by a seven-eighths majority in both houses Holy mother of supermajorities ... What's the procedure for reversing a ballot measure? Can only be done via a different ballot measure?

Yeah, it's a high bar to clear, but they didn't have to include that in the proposition. If they hadn't, then legislature would be entirely unable to modify it . Think about that before getting all fired up about 7/8 - most ballot initiatives completely exempt themselves from legislative amendment. That's the default.

I am aware of that fact now, but it's not making it better

Re: US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

#166

Post by Fatnino »

passthejoe wrote: post #151
jvanderbot wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fight over contractor status was versus regular employee status, which would require providing benefits. So, market rejoice, these driver folks are on their own. Editorializing a bit, but CA referendums are so silly. I was asked to vote to resolve an employee/employer dispute in kidney dialysis centers. There's so many of those types of things.

Labor unions seem to put that kidney dialysis measure on the ballot for every election, then they are outspent by more than 100-to-1 by the kidney dialysis companies on TV ads, and the measures never pass. Money wins, and the unions could spend more but they don't in this case.

I don't see any of the propaganda on this either way. Based purely on what I read on the ballot and in the state issued supplementary booklet (I forget what it's actually titled) I did not read any compelling argument to vote for this.

Re: US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

#167

Post by unity1001 »

weberer wrote: post #58
sourcecodeplz wrote: post #17

In Europe, you can't drive for Uber or deliver food without a standard work contract which includes: healthcare, pension, payroll and income taxes. Drivers here PAY private companies a weekly amount in order to work for Uber et all (to have that contract). Uber et all work with these companies only, not individuals.

No, that is wrong. At least in Finland, Wolt drivers are independent contractors. Their entire delivery fleet is composed of third world immigrants who are willing to work for peanuts for no benefits. It is exploitative and the current government doesn't want to do anything to change it. Whenever I see a post on HN that says "In Europe, blah blah blah" it is bullshit 80% of the time. Sometimes the poster is extrapola…

> No, that is wrong. At least in Finland

And in Spain and France, its the other way. With the new Euparl draft law soon going to make it mandatory.

https://techcrunch.com/2023/02/02/eu-platform-worker-directi...

Larger voting blocs want it. Finland has a small presence in Euparl. So even if it is not the mandatory law yet, what they said is true - Europe has been incrementally classifying gig workers as employees and it is soon about to make it mandatory.

Re: US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

#168

Post by bsder »

SllX wrote: post #16
uoaei wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> At what point does blatant advertising/propaganda meaningfully undermine human agency? Regularly and governments live and die on their ability to advertise their policies and propagate their message in a convincing fashion. There were plenty of us that didn’t need to be advertised to to put a bullet through AB5’s heart in a manner humiliating to the Bill’s chief sponsor despite the deficiencies in Prop 22 for getti…

Prop 22 was a garbage giveaway to Uber/Lyft passed at the height of Covid when a whole bunch of people had zero work except for Uber/Lyft.

Uber/Lyft basically blackmailed everybody threatening to pull out of the state, spent a hideous amnount of money on propaganda, and even sent text messages and emails to Uber/Lyft users threatening to pull out (which Uber/Lyft should have been fined viciously for).

AB5 was shit. Prop 22 was shittier.

Re: US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

#169

Post by wcarron »

brvsft wrote: post #128
MrDunham wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, crazy enough, I know the head lobbyist for the group that was fighting against that kidney dialysis thing. It's been struck down three times and, according to her heavily biased opinion, would seriously adversely affect access and choice. The company spent something like several hundred million dollars fighting that proposition and two before it. Crazy that one special interest can get some signatures to fight fo…

> hundreds of millions of dollars are burned in the process Not burned. Those dollars went to lawyers, advertising platforms, etc.

So... parasites. Burned sounds appropriate

Re: US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

#170

Post by belter »

diceduckmonk wrote: post #70
CSMastermind wrote: post #2

https://www.courts.ca.gov/opinions/documents/A163655.PDF ^ Actual court ruling which is linked in the article itself. I find the article's headline misleading. The court ruled that a proposition that was passed by voters in California which classified these drivers as contractors was mostly constitutional and would be allowed to have the effect of law, noting that California's legislative branch was free to change th…

> I find the article's headline misleading. I see Uber stock is up 6% pre-market. That suggests to me investors thinks Uber's liabilities are reduced as a result of this ruling.

That suggests to me, a lot of investors are using the wrong strategy of trying to time the market.
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