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The Great Illyrian Revolt

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Re: The Great Illyrian Revolt

#31

Post by foobarian »

xthrown1 wrote: post #14
actionfromafar wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't see the irony, do you? As ever, impossible to tell if it's sarcasm.

Macedonia is particularly egregious because its genesis as an ethnic group is still within living memory and would make as much sense as Pennsylvanians declaring themselves the last true Vikings, erecting statues with horned helmets and talking about retaking their true homelands. All other major ethnic groups in the Balkans have at least two or more generations from their creation, either synthetic or organic, and a…

I don't understand this comment about Macedonians. They seem like a pretty distinct ethnic group, as evidenced by the unique language and culture. That was not just created out of thin air in any kind of recent time.

Are people upset about them adopting the name?

Re: The Great Illyrian Revolt

#32

Post by colechristensen »

forgetfulness wrote: post #29
duxup wrote: post #23

>The Romans, aside from committing atrocities I see this in a lot of historical Wikipedia articles now. I'm not sure what to think of it. It feels like a modern tag added to articles that feels somewhat out of place. My understanding that at the time, and most of history war, what we think of as war crimes were a standard practice of war. It seems strange to me to tag the end of an article about a large scale war and…

Given that today we expect war crimes not to occur, how will people know that they did or didn't occur in Antiquity if not told explicitly so? The bigger problem is being so unspecific about the atrocities committed.

It’s something along the lines of accusing the Romans of violating the Geneva Conventions. Out of time. Reporting what kinds of things likely happened is not just advisable but necessary. Applying modern terms and standards by just saying “atrocity” doesn’t fit. Also the historical context that everyone did it is important.

Re: The Great Illyrian Revolt

#33

Post by [deleted] »

xthrown1 wrote: post #26
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this didn't happen centuries ago, this happened in the 1960s to 1990s The point is every ethnic group was made up by people at some point. Most retroactively. There isn't a rational reason to prefer old over new ethnic identities.

There is a difference between larping and culture. If you can't understand that you're probably larping thinking its culture.

[deleted]

Re: The Great Illyrian Revolt

#34

Post by thegaulofthem »

thrown123098 wrote: post #30
duxup wrote: post #23

>The Romans, aside from committing atrocities I see this in a lot of historical Wikipedia articles now. I'm not sure what to think of it. It feels like a modern tag added to articles that feels somewhat out of place. My understanding that at the time, and most of history war, what we think of as war crimes were a standard practice of war. It seems strange to me to tag the end of an article about a large scale war and…

Funny how these articles seldom mentioned the war crimes of the sympathetic side. Like how these rebellions started by killing all Romans in the province, after raping the women and children first of course.

Well, you see, for my side it’s Different…

More seriously, are we going to have a put disclaimers on an all encyclopedic articles that “standards of conduct were much different then”? How much pretext then becomes necessary?

Re: The Great Illyrian Revolt

#35

Post by forgetfulness »

thegaulofthem wrote: post #34
thrown123098 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny how these articles seldom mentioned the war crimes of the sympathetic side. Like how these rebellions started by killing all Romans in the province, after raping the women and children first of course.

Well, you see, for my side it’s Different… More seriously, are we going to have a put disclaimers on an all encyclopedic articles that “standards of conduct were much different then”? How much pretext then becomes necessary?

Considering that encyclopedias are meant to be pedagogical in nature since they were invented during the Illustration, yes, that would be helpful; if a teenager would come off with the wrong impression from reading an encyclopedia, it doesn't serve the function of one.

Material for people who are knowledgeable in the area are specialized books that can assume more background knowledge or journal articles meant for people keeping up with the state of the art.

Re: The Great Illyrian Revolt

#36

Post by shakow »

forgetfulness wrote: post #29
duxup wrote: post #23

>The Romans, aside from committing atrocities I see this in a lot of historical Wikipedia articles now. I'm not sure what to think of it. It feels like a modern tag added to articles that feels somewhat out of place. My understanding that at the time, and most of history war, what we think of as war crimes were a standard practice of war. It seems strange to me to tag the end of an article about a large scale war and…

Given that today we expect war crimes not to occur, how will people know that they did or didn't occur in Antiquity if not told explicitly so? The bigger problem is being so unspecific about the atrocities committed.

> Given that today we expect war crimes not to occur,

To what gauge? What was the last warcrimes-free war to occur?

Re: The Great Illyrian Revolt

#37

Post by yareally »

xthrown1 wrote: post #15
toyg wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're a bright young thing from an aristocratic Roman family, burning with entitlement and ambition. Your cursus honorum means you have to accumulate experience before you can run as senator or other high office of state, so you accept a post as governor of some far province. You get there, and it's all very underwhelming. The place is even filthier than Rome, sometimes little more than a village built with sticks.…

I want to watch this mini-series.

That summary is sort of the early life of Julius Caesar, but it actually worked out for him[0]. Also the story of this great little game that came out last year[1]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_life_and_career_of_Juliu...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expeditions:_Rome

Re: The Great Illyrian Revolt

#38

Post by AvAurora »

forgetfulness wrote: post #35
thegaulofthem wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you see, for my side it’s Different… More seriously, are we going to have a put disclaimers on an all encyclopedic articles that “standards of conduct were much different then”? How much pretext then becomes necessary?

Considering that encyclopedias are meant to be pedagogical in nature since they were invented during the Illustration, yes, that would be helpful; if a teenager would come off with the wrong impression from reading an encyclopedia, it doesn't serve the function of one. Material for people who are knowledgeable in the area are specialized books that can assume more background knowledge or journal articles meant for pe…

There should be a separation between historicism and ethics and factual data. If you want to blame the school curriculum because they dont teach ethics or morals, im fine with that but moralizing what should be a factual recount of some events is another thing. This is like me opening a chemistry book and reading, the formulation and process of synthesizing cyanide, despite its multiple uses in crime and assasinations by the soviet union, is .....

Re: The Great Illyrian Revolt

#39

Post by coryrc »

foobarian wrote: post #31
xthrown1 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Macedonia is particularly egregious because its genesis as an ethnic group is still within living memory and would make as much sense as Pennsylvanians declaring themselves the last true Vikings, erecting statues with horned helmets and talking about retaking their true homelands. All other major ethnic groups in the Balkans have at least two or more generations from their creation, either synthetic or organic, and a…

I don't understand this comment about Macedonians. They seem like a pretty distinct ethnic group, as evidenced by the unique language and culture. That was not just created out of thin air in any kind of recent time. Are people upset about them adopting the name?

> Are people upset about them adopting the name?

Yes. Macedonians of antiquity were Greek. "Northern Macedonians" are Slavic. Greeks are very protective of their identity.

Re: The Great Illyrian Revolt

#40

Post by GalahiSimtam »

toyg wrote: post #9
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #6

> Bato promised to surrender if he and his followers would be pardoned. Tiberius agreed and then asked him why his people had rebelled. According to Cassius Dio, he replied: "You Romans are to blame for this; for you send as guardians of your flocks, not dogs or shepherds, but wolves."[37] This seems to be a common cause of Roman rebellions. For example, Boudica rebelled after the Roman governor tried to seize her ki…

You're a bright young thing from an aristocratic Roman family, burning with entitlement and ambition. Your cursus honorum means you have to accumulate experience before you can run as senator or other high office of state, so you accept a post as governor of some far province. You get there, and it's all very underwhelming. The place is even filthier than Rome, sometimes little more than a village built with sticks.…

you don't get to be a governor until you completed cursus honorum tho
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