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The Great Illyrian Revolt

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Re: The Great Illyrian Revolt

#21

Post by xthrown1 »

actionfromafar wrote: post #18
xthrown1 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Macedonia is particularly egregious because its genesis as an ethnic group is still within living memory and would make as much sense as Pennsylvanians declaring themselves the last true Vikings, erecting statues with horned helmets and talking about retaking their true homelands. All other major ethnic groups in the Balkans have at least two or more generations from their creation, either synthetic or organic, and a…

Sure, but in a couple of hundred years it will feel normal. This has happened many times before.

Yes, but this didn't happen centuries ago, this happened in the 1960s to 1990s.

Re: The Great Illyrian Revolt

#22

Post by chillstreem »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #8
bluetomcat wrote: post #7

Welcome to the Balkans, where this kind of ancient stuff is used as arguments in historical disputes for modern nation building and pride. Whether your genes have traces from the Illyrian, Thracian, Dalmatian, Greek, Slavic or proto-Bulgarian tribes, is a major force in international relations on that peninsula.

you mean where entire nations are created after the balkanisation(ha ha) of yugoslavia by using false history to base nationalism on and create a national identity ? coughcough Northern Macedonia cough

if anything, Yugoslavia itself was created using false common history as a glue for enforced national South Slavic identity that never took a strong hold, precisely because most of its constituent peoples always felt stronger connection to their specific ethnic identities than this forced common identity.

Croats, Serbs, and some others who made up Yugoslavia had separate and firm national identities in the modern sense of the word for at least 150 years before Yugoslavia fell apart in the 1990s, and in the more extended sense some of them had written history, rulers, institutions, their own language and script going back for more than a thousand years before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1Xk9b92oKY

Re: The Great Illyrian Revolt

#23

Post by duxup »

>The Romans, aside from committing atrocities

I see this in a lot of historical Wikipedia articles now. I'm not sure what to think of it. It feels like a modern tag added to articles that feels somewhat out of place.

My understanding that at the time, and most of history war, what we think of as war crimes were a standard practice of war.

It seems strange to me to tag the end of an article about a large scale war and saying "hey this one group committed war crimes" and just leave it at that if you're not talking about specific events.

IMO adding that line seems to skew things to indicate one group committed war crimes, not mention other groups involved (it would seem to indicate they did not), and skews / hides the fact that the practice of war at included war crimes as a standard practice.

Re: The Great Illyrian Revolt

#25

Post by JumpCrisscross »

xthrown1 wrote: post #21
actionfromafar wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but in a couple of hundred years it will feel normal. This has happened many times before.

Yes, but this didn't happen centuries ago, this happened in the 1960s to 1990s.

> this didn't happen centuries ago, this happened in the 1960s to 1990s

The point is every ethnic group was made up by people at some point. Most retroactively. There isn't a rational reason to prefer old over new ethnic identities.

Re: The Great Illyrian Revolt

#26

Post by xthrown1 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #25
xthrown1 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but this didn't happen centuries ago, this happened in the 1960s to 1990s.

> this didn't happen centuries ago, this happened in the 1960s to 1990s The point is every ethnic group was made up by people at some point. Most retroactively. There isn't a rational reason to prefer old over new ethnic identities.

There is a difference between larping and culture. If you can't understand that you're probably larping thinking its culture.

Re: The Great Illyrian Revolt

#28

Post by JumpCrisscross »

xthrown1 wrote: post #26
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this didn't happen centuries ago, this happened in the 1960s to 1990s The point is every ethnic group was made up by people at some point. Most retroactively. There isn't a rational reason to prefer old over new ethnic identities.

There is a difference between larping and culture. If you can't understand that you're probably larping thinking its culture.

> you can't understand that you're probably larping thinking its culture

We’ve been telling others their culture isn’t real for about as long as we’ve been inventing ethnicities.

Re: The Great Illyrian Revolt

#29

Post by forgetfulness »

duxup wrote: post #23

>The Romans, aside from committing atrocities I see this in a lot of historical Wikipedia articles now. I'm not sure what to think of it. It feels like a modern tag added to articles that feels somewhat out of place. My understanding that at the time, and most of history war, what we think of as war crimes were a standard practice of war. It seems strange to me to tag the end of an article about a large scale war and…

Given that today we expect war crimes not to occur, how will people know that they did or didn't occur in Antiquity if not told explicitly so?

The bigger problem is being so unspecific about the atrocities committed.

Re: The Great Illyrian Revolt

#30

Post by thrown123098 »

duxup wrote: post #23

>The Romans, aside from committing atrocities I see this in a lot of historical Wikipedia articles now. I'm not sure what to think of it. It feels like a modern tag added to articles that feels somewhat out of place. My understanding that at the time, and most of history war, what we think of as war crimes were a standard practice of war. It seems strange to me to tag the end of an article about a large scale war and…

Funny how these articles seldom mentioned the war crimes of the sympathetic side. Like how these rebellions started by killing all Romans in the province, after raping the women and children first of course.
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