US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors • Hacker News Board

Re: US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

#101

Post by ar9av » Tue, Mar 14, 2023, 1:30 PM UTC

But their pay directly scales with the amount being charged to the customer. Let's say that I am a driver classified as an employee. I give a one hour ride at 8PM and the customer is charged $100 - I will make my hourly wage (let's say $18). Now, let's say I give that same ride at 8AM during rush hour. Uber surge is 3x and the customer is charged $300 - I still make $18 for that trip.

Uber and Lyft drivers now pay a percentage back to the platform but their profit or loss is directly tied to customer payment amounts.

Re: US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

#102

Post by itisit » Tue, Mar 14, 2023, 1:31 PM UTC

IshKebab wrote: post #67

TulliusCicero wrote: post #19

Gig workers aren't quite contractors and aren't quite employees. Maybe need a third class of worker.

Yeah people have real difficulty dealing with things that don't fit neatly into existing categories. I imagine when smartphones were first introduced people had debates about whether they were phones or computers.

Speaking for the rest of humanity: no, we did not have debates as to whether smartphones are phones or computers.

Re: US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

#103

Post by josho » Tue, Mar 14, 2023, 1:32 PM UTC

fallingknife wrote: post #85

user3939382 wrote: post #74

Our government, and large swaths of the media, is owned by banks and corporations. The vestiges of the pre-industrial democracy we had persist as a sham to keep the electorate’s consent for and compliance with this system. Uber and Lyft are not people and shouldn’t have been permitted to spend $1 on this campaign nor towards the campaign of any politician. Unfortunately it won’t be until bread is $30/loaf that the pu…

They should have the right to put their proposal to a vote and make their case, and the did, and they won. This was a democratic vote by the citizens of California. And if it were a democratic vote by the Uber drivers, it also would have won.

I think you missed the point. Companies are not citizens therefore, op argued, as non citizens they should not have a voice in election outcomes. It’s a fair point, as a comparison we don’t allow visa holders to vote.

I also suspect the citizens were influenced in their opinions by all the money spent to ‘educate’ the electorate. Somehow it feels wrong to allow a corporation to pay to set school curriculums, but when it comes to corporations paying to set policy that’s entirely ok.

Re: US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

#104

Post by jdminhbg » Tue, Mar 14, 2023, 1:37 PM UTC

Spivak wrote: post #95

mdorazio wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surveyed by whom and how was the question asked?

[flagged]

It’s possible that Uber and Lyft drivers are simply not dumb enough to believe that the legislature is going to magically conjure a 401k match and PTO for their 10 hour/week driving side gig.

Re: US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

#105

Post by throwawaymaths » Tue, Mar 14, 2023, 1:37 PM UTC

p0pcult wrote: post #98

ChicagoDave wrote: post #78

Everyone seems to forget or disregard the fact that these lawsuits are paid for by the taxi industry. Even when they dig up a few Uber drivers, it’s all a sham. 70% of surveyed rideshare drivers prefer to be independent contractors. If there was a serious majority for employment, Uber and Lyft simply wouldn’t exist.

[flagged]

Yet somehow they are more exploitative. I would never ever want to be a taxi driver, but made ~60k/year as a Lyft driver.

Re: US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

#106

Post by josho » Tue, Mar 14, 2023, 1:38 PM UTC

iLoveOncall wrote: post #92

nunez wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they can't set their rates. that's a huge part of being a contractor.

They can. Refusing to take some rides that they do not deem profitable is the same as "negotiating their rate". If anything, they probably have a lot more power regarding compensation than if they were employees, all earning the same (definitely shitty) salary.

You’ve taken a narrow interpretation.

Drivers have zero ability to set their rate.

Re: US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

#107

Post by throwawaymaths » Tue, Mar 14, 2023, 1:41 PM UTC

mydriasis wrote: post #100

What does this mean for the average Uber or Lyft driver? How does their quality of life or employment change as a result, generally? I'm not well-acquainted with this kind of stuff.

Used to be a Lyft driver:. By changing status, it would be possible for Lyft/Uber to restrict drivers from being on the other platform simultaneously. This means probably a takehome drop of 20~30%.

The truly egregious one though is FedEx/Amazon drivers, who (IIRC) are "contractors" and forced to use branded vehicles, wear uniforms, and have their driving monitored like crazy. They are definitely employees, and are ruining it for Lyft drivers.

Re: US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

#108

Post by josho » Tue, Mar 14, 2023, 1:42 PM UTC

nxm wrote: post #90

xyst wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Hustler” economy

Better than unemployed all together

[flagged]

Re: US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

#109

Post by scyzoryk_xyz » Tue, Mar 14, 2023, 1:43 PM UTC

Spivak wrote: post #95

mdorazio wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surveyed by whom and how was the question asked?

[flagged]

As an ex-Lyft driver (SF,CA) and someone who knows/knew many of them I would add here that it is rare for anyone doing this kind of work to be planning to do it for life. It’s usually part of some temporary plan or arrangement.

This is why these people often argue against what would seem to be in their interest. They want to stay under radar, they just want/need the cash.

That being said, I’m not so sure in hindsight that any of it is healthy. In the EU where I live now, driving a car for this work requires the driver to jump through many extra hoops so it is a more long-term decision to become one. You get nicer cars, better drivers and… higher prices.

There is no solution to this problem! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: US court rules Uber and Lyft workers are contractors

#110

Post by user3939382 » Tue, Mar 14, 2023, 1:46 PM UTC

marcinzm wrote: post #76

user3939382 wrote: post #74

Our government, and large swaths of the media, is owned by banks and corporations. The vestiges of the pre-industrial democracy we had persist as a sham to keep the electorate’s consent for and compliance with this system. Uber and Lyft are not people and shouldn’t have been permitted to spend $1 on this campaign nor towards the campaign of any politician. Unfortunately it won’t be until bread is $30/loaf that the pu…

>pre-industrial democracy You have a very rose tinted view of how democracy was in the past or who actually made decisions.

It wasn't perfect but it existed. Calling it rose-colored is to downplay how bad it's gotten. The complex of multinational corporations and their lobby groups that run our government today didn't exist then, the e.g. railroad companies are no comparison.