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The Great Illyrian Revolt

en.wikipedia.org

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Re: The Great Illyrian Revolt

#11

Post by keiferski »

thom wrote: post #10
keiferski wrote: post #5

I had never heard of this war, but apparently it was considered by Romans to be the most significant foreign conflict since the Punic Wars with Hannibal. I assume that the Civil Wars are not included. The Roman historian Suetonius described the uprising as the most difficult conflict faced by Rome since the Punic Wars two centuries earlier.

It's often overshadowed by events that followed shortly after: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Teutoburg_Forest

Apparently Arminius, the German who betrayed the Romans in Teutoburg, served in the Roman forces during the Illyrian Revolt. Interesting!

Re: The Great Illyrian Revolt

#12

Post by actionfromafar »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #8
bluetomcat wrote: post #7

Welcome to the Balkans, where this kind of ancient stuff is used as arguments in historical disputes for modern nation building and pride. Whether your genes have traces from the Illyrian, Thracian, Dalmatian, Greek, Slavic or proto-Bulgarian tribes, is a major force in international relations on that peninsula.

you mean where entire nations are created after the balkanisation(ha ha) of yugoslavia by using false history to base nationalism on and create a national identity ? coughcough Northern Macedonia cough

You don't see the irony, do you? As ever, impossible to tell if it's sarcasm.

Re: The Great Illyrian Revolt

#13

Post by emptyfile »

bluetomcat wrote: post #7

Welcome to the Balkans, where this kind of ancient stuff is used as arguments in historical disputes for modern nation building and pride. Whether your genes have traces from the Illyrian, Thracian, Dalmatian, Greek, Slavic or proto-Bulgarian tribes, is a major force in international relations on that peninsula.

[dead]

Re: The Great Illyrian Revolt

#14

Post by xthrown1 »

actionfromafar wrote: post #12
4gotunameagain wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you mean where entire nations are created after the balkanisation(ha ha) of yugoslavia by using false history to base nationalism on and create a national identity ? coughcough Northern Macedonia cough

You don't see the irony, do you? As ever, impossible to tell if it's sarcasm.

Macedonia is particularly egregious because its genesis as an ethnic group is still within living memory and would make as much sense as Pennsylvanians declaring themselves the last true Vikings, erecting statues with horned helmets and talking about retaking their true homelands.

All other major ethnic groups in the Balkans have at least two or more generations from their creation, either synthetic or organic, and as such are as easy to take seriously as any other ethnicity, be it Han or English.

Re: The Great Illyrian Revolt

#15

Post by xthrown1 »

toyg wrote: post #9
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #6

> Bato promised to surrender if he and his followers would be pardoned. Tiberius agreed and then asked him why his people had rebelled. According to Cassius Dio, he replied: "You Romans are to blame for this; for you send as guardians of your flocks, not dogs or shepherds, but wolves."[37] This seems to be a common cause of Roman rebellions. For example, Boudica rebelled after the Roman governor tried to seize her ki…

You're a bright young thing from an aristocratic Roman family, burning with entitlement and ambition. Your cursus honorum means you have to accumulate experience before you can run as senator or other high office of state, so you accept a post as governor of some far province. You get there, and it's all very underwhelming. The place is even filthier than Rome, sometimes little more than a village built with sticks.…

I want to watch this mini-series.

Re: The Great Illyrian Revolt

#16

Post by duxup »

bluetomcat wrote: post #7

Welcome to the Balkans, where this kind of ancient stuff is used as arguments in historical disputes for modern nation building and pride. Whether your genes have traces from the Illyrian, Thracian, Dalmatian, Greek, Slavic or proto-Bulgarian tribes, is a major force in international relations on that peninsula.

When history is used like that I always wonder how much it gets skewed for other purposes.

At that point how much of it is a science or honest investigation and how much is it a tool?

Re: The Great Illyrian Revolt

#17

Post by hhlevnjak2 »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #8
bluetomcat wrote: post #7

Welcome to the Balkans, where this kind of ancient stuff is used as arguments in historical disputes for modern nation building and pride. Whether your genes have traces from the Illyrian, Thracian, Dalmatian, Greek, Slavic or proto-Bulgarian tribes, is a major force in international relations on that peninsula.

you mean where entire nations are created after the balkanisation(ha ha) of yugoslavia by using false history to base nationalism on and create a national identity ? coughcough Northern Macedonia cough

While this has been a more recent development for (Ex) Yugoslavia, nations and nationalism followed a similar pattern elsewhere. You can see a lot of diversity between regions in i.e. Germany, Spain, Italy which is more or less unified by a shared history narrative.

Not arguing it's good or bad. Just saying it's about how and when you define what a nation is.

edit: And to clarify some more, the reason why divisions here are harder is due to the lack of the shared history narrative. :D

Re: The Great Illyrian Revolt

#18

Post by actionfromafar »

xthrown1 wrote: post #14
actionfromafar wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't see the irony, do you? As ever, impossible to tell if it's sarcasm.

Macedonia is particularly egregious because its genesis as an ethnic group is still within living memory and would make as much sense as Pennsylvanians declaring themselves the last true Vikings, erecting statues with horned helmets and talking about retaking their true homelands. All other major ethnic groups in the Balkans have at least two or more generations from their creation, either synthetic or organic, and a…

Sure, but in a couple of hundred years it will feel normal. This has happened many times before.

Re: The Great Illyrian Revolt

#19

Post by credit_guy »

keiferski wrote: post #11
thom wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's often overshadowed by events that followed shortly after: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Teutoburg_Forest

Apparently Arminius, the German who betrayed the Romans in Teutoburg, served in the Roman forces during the Illyrian Revolt. Interesting!

It is probably a different Arminius. The German one never switched sides after Teutoburg [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arminius

Re: The Great Illyrian Revolt

#20

Post by keiferski »

credit_guy wrote: post #19
keiferski wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently Arminius, the German who betrayed the Romans in Teutoburg, served in the Roman forces during the Illyrian Revolt. Interesting!

It is probably a different Arminius. The German one never switched sides after Teutoburg [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arminius

From the link you just posted:

After serving with distinction in the Great Illyrian Revolt, he was sent to Germania to aid the local governor Publius Quinctilius Varus in completing the Roman conquest of the Germanic tribes. While in this capacity, Arminius secretly plotted a Germanic revolt against Roman rule, which culminated in the ambush and destruction of three Roman legions in the Teutoburg Forest.

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