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Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

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Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#571

Post by dang »

UncleEntity wrote: post #223
dang wrote: post #39

Offtopic but for those wondering: there are two Launch HNs on the front page today because we're getting close to Demo Day for YC's W23 batch, so it's launch season. When we do pair them, I'm trying to select two startups that are uncorrelated with each other. Also, I thought it might be good to start the week with two launches that have nothing to do with LLMs.

I vote for a whole month of no LLMs.

Sorry, no can do. You're going to get one tomorrow and two on Thursday I think. I'm trying to pace them!

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#572

Post by gandalfian »

briHass wrote: post #287

Would've loved to see a different approach to the typical refrigerant-split units. I'm EPA certified, and do my own heat pump work, but something that could really blow up the heat pump space would be a closed-loop refrigerant system that uses water lines to the indoor coil/air handler. This would make the system a true DIY self-install, since you'd never be messing with refrigerant loops. The indoor coil/AH could be…

a closed-loop refrigerant system that uses water lines to the indoor coil/air handler

Sounds like an air to water monoblock heat pump. Common in Europe. But you can only get the water up to about 50C efficiently. Not as good as refrigerant. So you need a large radiator to get the heat out into the room. Using wet underfloor heating as a giant emmitter works well. But otherwise it makes them tricky.

Some people are trying for minisplits with propane in the lines which is not a greenhouse gas so they hope anyone will be able to install it without a licence.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#573

Post by cmui »

EngManagerIsMe wrote: post #488

I live in Seattle, which has strict noise requirements for heat pump units, and will absolutely ensure you are compliant. The electric air website mentions a db measurement, but it's not clear if that's the external or internal unit's noise level. Might be worth clarifying that.

The listed noise is for the outside unit.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#574

Post by hattmall »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #520
cstejerean wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also tend to only install units that you can't buy directly and only quote for total cost not parts and labor so you cannot easily tell just how much they are charging for the labor.

What difference would the breakdown on parts and labor make to you as a prospective client, given that you cannot buy the units directly?

You could buy an equivalent system, they just use special contractor only models so you cant easily see the price online.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#576

Post by divbzero »

cmui wrote: post #564
opendomain wrote: post #559

I love startups, but the value proposition is not here. I just had a heat pump installed and it was a much better price and higher efficiency. What is the benefit of direct to consumers is you are going to charge more? What makes your heat pumps better? Hepa filtering? Smart controls? They all have that. Is the market niche esthetics? They do look nice - maybe this company is trying to be the Apple of heat pumps? Cha…

Mind sharing some details of your install - equipment model/size, controls, and cost of install?

Is there a straightforward way to estimate whether a small (24 kbtu), medium (36 kbtu), or large (48 kbtu) unit would be most appropriate for a given home?

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#577

Post by jijji »

thaeli wrote: post #255
oceanplexian wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It already exists. Check out Mr. Cool Universal and Gree Flexx. Heat pumps that work with a normal thermostat exist. Most of the info about this stuff online is trash because HVAC is the most toxic online community compared to any other contracting profession. One of the reasons highly efficient mini splits haven’t took off in the USA- the self proclaimed experts want to charge $2000 to drill a hole and charge a line…

I've often wondered why this is. My best guess is that the EPA cert (not actually hard to get) has been turned into some sort of weird quasi-guild-membership thing. I can walk right in to a "to the trade" electrical or plumbing supply and they'll deal with me, no problem, no questions asked. With HVAC.. they won't even talk to you without an EPA number, even if you're not buying refrigerant. DTC for whole house syste…

when dealing with HVAC you either have to have a friend on the inside who has a license for mechanical or you have to buy everything on eBay... because you're right most of the supply houses won't talk to you unless you have an HVAC license of some sort, That's why most of the stuff I get is on eBay.... things like capacitors, blower motors, heat strips, R410A refrigerant etc either eBay or Facebook marketplace is the best place for it.... and then being in the house rental business I'm constantly buying this equipment and then just having people install it because it's just cheaper that way.... I save about 5 to $7,000 on average per install doing it that way

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#578

Post by sokoloff »

criddell wrote: post #570
sokoloff wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same refrigerants work. Getting a large decrease in temp vs outside is a matter of insulation, air sealing, roof/wall color, and sizing of units/ducts.

Thanks for the information. One more question- what about commercial spaces where they will have a door open and be flooding the store with ice cold air. It sure feels like more than a 20 degree difference.

It's still just a 20°F difference from the vent that the AC sucks air from to the supply the AC blows out of.

That has (essentially) nothing to with the relationship between the indoor and outdoor temp.

For simplicity, imagine a balmy 110°F outside temp, an 80°F inside temp. That's 30°F from inside to outside [and will feel refreshing], but probably results from a supply temp [the coldest air coming right out of the vent] at 68°F, a return temp [the air being drawn into the AC duct] of 88°F.

The key 20°F delta-T is the measure between the 88°F and the 68°F (both temperatures inside the conditioned [in other words, "indoor"] space). All of the other temperatures can be all over the place. Even if the outside temp was 120°F, provided the unit was sized large enough or the insulation good enough, the indoor air might average 80°F and keep the same 88°F/68°F [20°F delta-T].

As a more extreme example, your freezer probably works on a delta-T of ~10°F. That's the difference between the air going into the evap coil area and the outlet. If your indoor kitchen temperature is 80°F, your freezer still keeps things frozen even though its delta-T is only 10°F. You don't take the 10°F from the 80°F. You take the 10° from the 30-ish°F and get a warm temp of 30°F and a cold temp of 20°F in the freezer.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#579

Post by hackernewds »

opendomain wrote: post #559

I love startups, but the value proposition is not here. I just had a heat pump installed and it was a much better price and higher efficiency. What is the benefit of direct to consumers is you are going to charge more? What makes your heat pumps better? Hepa filtering? Smart controls? They all have that. Is the market niche esthetics? They do look nice - maybe this company is trying to be the Apple of heat pumps? Cha…

which heat pump did you install? mind sharing?

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#580

Post by briHass »

pkulak wrote: post #403
cmui wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people have a preferred way of integrating their devices, like home assistant, I'd want to make that possible for people to do with Electric Air. Re the sizing question - this is a part of the site that needs improvement. 12kbtu is 1 ton. The 48kbtu system is a 4ton system, but rated at 5F, if you're in a more temperate climate, two of these will likely have plenty of capacity for you. It's also likely that your c…

The good news, at least, is that almost anything will work. You don't need full Matter support for Home Assistant folks to be happy. The bare-minimum, local REST api built on a Monday by an intern will do it. Someone will write the Python code to fully integrate it. I get that there would be some security concerns there, but you get my drift.

If worried about security concerns, just provide a common port interface (RJ-45/RJ-11) on the unit with a simple, well-documented, serial-based protocol on RS485/RS232. You can sell an add-on device to bridge that to Ethernet/simple API, and easily replace/recall that inexpensive module if there are issues.

The hackers will do what they want to anyway, and they'll implement cool interfaces/HA plugins/controllers on RPis or ESP32s for free. Someone will get enterprising and package a pre-built/programmed ESP32 unit that makes it plug-and-play for nerdy, but less capable users, and your company can avoid any liability from users using an 'unsupported' add-on.

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