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America and China are preparing for a war over Taiwan

economist.com

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Re: America and China are preparing for a war over Taiwan

#51

Post by merth »

no_wizard wrote: post #40

Is anyone really equipped to go to war with the USA? Unrestrained war with the US war machine would be....catastrophic, to say the least. I mean for both parties, but the US out spends everyone by a wide margin[0] and the US military is very advanced and well resourced, and well trained. Even if the fighting was just constrained to Taiwan, it would be pretty bad for everyone, but I think it would be especially bad fo…

US counldn't deal with bunch of homeless with ak47 for 20 years. good luck with that

Re: America and China are preparing for a war over Taiwan

#52

Post by ctvo »

curiousgal wrote: post #42
no_wizard wrote: post #40

Is anyone really equipped to go to war with the USA? Unrestrained war with the US war machine would be....catastrophic, to say the least. I mean for both parties, but the US out spends everyone by a wide margin[0] and the US military is very advanced and well resourced, and well trained. Even if the fighting was just constrained to Taiwan, it would be pretty bad for everyone, but I think it would be especially bad fo…

Maybe you're overestimating the USA the way Russia was overestimated. How many actual wars did the USA win? Out of Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, and the Gulf War only the latter was an actual victory.

There's occupying a foreign territory and decisively winning conventional battles. The US has no issues with the latter, and Taiwan will be the latter, unless you think the US is going to invade China and hold a city or two for two decades.

The Gulf War put the world on notice at how quickly Iraq, then the 5th (iirc) largest armed force, was dismantled in days by the US war machine.

Re: America and China are preparing for a war over Taiwan

#53

Post by galaxytachyon »

avgcorrection wrote: post #28
singularity2001 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watch Chinese news to see that China has a very militaristic approach

Watch Fox News to see that Republicans have a very (shall we say) “militaristic approach” to the Great Powers enemies of the US. The US is still not going to attack them.

I don't think that is a fair comparison. Fox News isn't an official government mouthpiece. For whatever favors they have, they still can't speak for the US government. No news source in the US is.

China can't claim the same with the amount of censorship and information control they have. If a main news channel in China is pushing some type of information, it is very likely such information was explicitly approved by the Chinese government.

Re: America and China are preparing for a war over Taiwan

#54

Post by rnk »

baal80spam wrote: post #31
avgcorrection wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole world has not shunned Russia over the invasion.

OK, whole/most of the _civilized_ world did.

China, India, Syria, NK, a few other countries. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-gets-shrugs-in-i...

Re: America and China are preparing for a war over Taiwan

#55

Post by rnk »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #50
1270018080 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia invaded Ukraine for basically no reason, it still happened. If you have enough fervent nationalism in the population and an authoritarian government, lunacy isn't going to stop anything.

Russia invaded Ukraine over control of the ports of Sebastopol and Odessa, and over control of the Varangian Road from the Black Sea to Moscow. These are immediate national security concerns. There were those of us who looked at the Eastern expansion of NATO with great concern, a proxy war was going to be fought, and Europe was going to have to deal with the refugees and the political instability.

And so why did Russia invade or attack Moldova and multiple other countries like Georgia? I believe the underlying reason is Russia wants to absorb all of those back or at least control them with puppets. I'm sure in each country they can point to a national security issue. Russia is going to invade and control all the small countries around them unless Europe works together to stop them with the US.

Re: America and China are preparing for a war over Taiwan

#56

Post by rnk »

avgcorrection wrote: post #2

> Ignore the polite abstractions. The marines are training for a war with China, probably precipitated by an invasion of Taiwan. I guess the consent manufacturing has started. "If shit hits the fan, remember: it was probably China who started it."

No one made Russia invade Ukraine. They could have just... not have invaded them, and they could declare victory and leave tomorrow. It's the same with China and Taiwan here, China can just ... not invade Taiwan if they want to avoid a war.

Re: America and China are preparing for a war over Taiwan

#57

Post by lumost »

no_wizard wrote: post #48
curiousgal wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you're overestimating the USA the way Russia was overestimated. How many actual wars did the USA win? Out of Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, and the Gulf War only the latter was an actual victory.

Actual wars? In WWII the US engaged successfully in a two front war as part of the allied coalition and more directly against Imperial Japan, and I don't think that should be understated. What we call in the US the Korean War was a good show of military might, and ended short of things getting out of hand. The Gulf War is another decisive showing of force. Nation building, however? God we do suck at that. Thats why I…

US war fighting has depended on uncontested air supremacy for decades. It is not at all certain the us can rely on this over the Taiwan straight. China need only build 2-3000 5 million dollar missiles to deny air access to any adversary over Taiwan.

Re: America and China are preparing for a war over Taiwan

#58

Post by no_wizard »

merth wrote: post #51
no_wizard wrote: post #40

Is anyone really equipped to go to war with the USA? Unrestrained war with the US war machine would be....catastrophic, to say the least. I mean for both parties, but the US out spends everyone by a wide margin[0] and the US military is very advanced and well resourced, and well trained. Even if the fighting was just constrained to Taiwan, it would be pretty bad for everyone, but I think it would be especially bad fo…

US counldn't deal with bunch of homeless with ak47 for 20 years. good luck with that

I'm against any war, truly.

But this wasn't unrestrained war, it was nation building, and we are no good at trying to be imperialists, yet we try, and its sad, and I think the country will for the foreseeable future have learned from these mistakes, but Iraq and Afghanistan were not unrestrained wars, they were attempts at nation building, and we failed for so many reasons.

If they were more conventional, say like the Gulf War was, it would have been over in days, weeks maybe.

Completely unrestrained? I don't think we'd be talking about Iraq and Afghanistan as current countries.

Re: America and China are preparing for a war over Taiwan

#59

Post by no_wizard »

lumost wrote: post #57
no_wizard wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actual wars? In WWII the US engaged successfully in a two front war as part of the allied coalition and more directly against Imperial Japan, and I don't think that should be understated. What we call in the US the Korean War was a good show of military might, and ended short of things getting out of hand. The Gulf War is another decisive showing of force. Nation building, however? God we do suck at that. Thats why I…

US war fighting has depended on uncontested air supremacy for decades. It is not at all certain the us can rely on this over the Taiwan straight. China need only build 2-3000 5 million dollar missiles to deny air access to any adversary over Taiwan.

Possibly, but I think that wildly simplifies both US air power, and ability to counter such things, e.g. submarines can launch non nuclear missiles at targets without even being visible. Taiwan would be ripe for such tactics.

I'm not an expert military strategist or anything, but Taiwan being an island gives the US many options to lean into

Re: America and China are preparing for a war over Taiwan

#60

Post by ianburrell »

swamp40 wrote: post #14

It would be a proxy war, not direct US troop involvement. But China says any response from Taiwan will be taken as a direct response from the US. So, that could go south in a hurry. I think Ukraine showed China exactly what the world response would be to such an invasion - i.e. shunning, so I doubt this would happen except as a way to goad the US into a war. And China certainly isn't ready for that yet. From the US P…

It is impossible for Taiwan to be proxy war. China will be able to blockade the island and probably achieve air superiority. There is no way to supply Taiwan without getting shot at and involved.

China is getting close to being ready for invasion. China has built a lot in the last decade, they built an entire modern navy. Amphibious invasions are difficult, and it is possible that they are impossible in modern world.

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