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Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

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Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#371

Post by cmui »

amluto wrote: post #315

Some questions: What is the HEPA for? Is it on the fresh air intake or are you actually HEPA-filtering the recirculated air? If the latter, why not MERV 16? HEPA media is probably more expensive, and it definitely has much higher pressure loss, and there is no actual need for it outside of healthcare. How are you humidifying? Can you control the coil temperature in cooling mode and thus control the sensible/latent co…

Good questions.

We have a way of running HEPA with not unreasonable pressure loss, and then dialing back the amount of filtration when PM2.5 levels are reasonable. Separately a homeowner can request a high filtration mode.

Humidifying is though a system similar to a whole home humidifier - a small bypass from the supply side of the furnace evaporates water off a media.

Yes, through a combination of reheat and coil temperature control we can change the sensible/latent cooling ratio.

HRV/ERV only makes sense in certain applications. We're looking at making one integral in the system, but it will come down to minimizing total cost for homeowners. Comfort metrics will be unaffected.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#372

Post by konigschnell »

euph0ria wrote: post #31

I would only buy it if it has an API that I can access like NIBE does. It should have WiFI and also be able to run completely without internet connection. No functionality should be limited if internet is down except for functions that rely on external data such as live electricity prices etc. Also, it should be modular so it is easy to repair. Nibe sucks from this aspect and I would love a different heat pump that h…

Professional installer for NIBE products here. Your experience doesn't align well with what I hear from my customers. Out of curiosity, what product do you have?

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#373

Post by AnonMO »

Nition wrote: post #242

It's strange seeing this post describe heat pumps as if they're a new thing, and everyone commenting as if they are. I live in New Zealand and heat pumps have been standard in new builds for just about 20 years now. They're great. If you want to add one to your home you can call up various companies to do it for reasonable prices (not sure how this stacks up against US prices, but I recently had a small 2.5kW cool/3.…

I don’t think he ever sold it ad new tech its more of a Silicon Valley spin on old tech. And heat pump are in the US but many are hesitant because of the climate in the states can be extreme and as you said NZ has a milder climate compared to the US. for example in my state just last month we hit lows that aren’t supported by any heat pump on the market for days on end but my furnace kept me warm and on the other side of the country temperatures break world record highs every year. Everything op said fits the US market very well heat pump demand is on the rise, alot of people have smart thermostats they’re even provided by some utility companies, the product is a very compelling.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#375

Post by antisthenes »

When you advertise as something being sold direct, it usually implies some kind of cost savings due to cutting out the middleman.

Instead, what we're seeing here is about a 2x cost of what an HVAC company would charge you for installing the heat pump.

So you've cut out the middleman, but inserted your startup here and decided to upcharge the end user double. Justify the cost to me, as a homeowner. Why should I not opt for an HVAC-company installed heat pump from a known-brand like Mitsubishi or Hitachi?

What do I get for the extra $6-7k you seem to be upcharging? Is it efficiency? PM 2.5 sensors? Longer expected system lifetime?

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#376

Post by 1970-01-01 »

z3ugma wrote: post #12

Chris, one of my biggest worries is that your startup will get acquired or go out of business and then the firmware will leave me with a $14,000 brick. What if I want to keep using the cloud-based thermostat when your servers get shut off or moved to another system, or if something like Google Nest closing down their API happens after you've exited? This is an expensive system with an expected long life, and I'd want…

I have the same question, but on the hardware side. Since HVAC is critical infrastructure for a home, where will replacement parts be in a decade?

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#377

Post by adanto6840 »

cmui wrote: post #267
adanto6840 wrote: post #232

Wish you had been around a few years ago, before I took the plunge on two 5-ton Bosch "BOVA 2.0" heat pump units -- I'd have seriously considered your product. The Bosch units are inverter driven and contain some interesting tech; we've had some issues with them, unfortunately I'm not sure that the HVAC industry is ready for such tech, but I do generally think it's the future. I continually wish (and search Github bi…

I'm sure there's some contractor unit that lets you see the live readout of compressor speed. As for Electric Air - we want to give visibility into system operation, what's the input electrical power, what's the output thermal power, how much have you spent on heating so far, and what's your average COP for a given time period (ratio of heating out/electrical in).

If you remove the service panel there's a screen that displays what capacity they're running at. My installer had some issues initially, and Bosch actually had 2 regional reps (corporate) visit the site themselves. I'm sure the protocol exists somewhere, but the guys they sent wouldn't have known and I don't believe they connected anything to the board -- the Bosch reps couldn't even correctly explain to me how/what logic controls the speed of the interior blower fan (two speed).

I actually never really did get an answer to that question -- what/when will the interior fan go to it's "second speed" (when only sending 1 cooling signal & letting the Bosch board have 100% control over capacity), so we ended up wiring my units to be "remote" controlled, like a 2-stage system - though it's then critical to enable an extra setting ("Reverse Staging" on Ecobee), otherwise you'll just end up with short-cycling when stage2 cooling calls are made. If you search the topic you'll probably stumble on my Reddit thread which has quite a bit of detail on the topic. =D

I wish you luck; I do think it's the future. FWIW I think your product's ideal audience/target market is probably not here/us, but I think a relatively large addressable market does exist. How you can best reach & tap into that market, at a price point that make sense & while providing a (sales) UX that actually converts -- I think those are the main challenges you'll have to solve.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#378

Post by cmui »

itissid wrote: post #338

Chris, I live in a high rise in a US city with only PTAC units[1]. The same unit provide both heating and cooling. Can this replace them? [1] https://www.trane.com/Commercial/Uploads/Pdf/1129/ptac-svx01...

A few options for you, if you have a viable mounting situation for the condenser (big if), you can use an Electric Air unit with wall unit. Otherwise you're best off with a drop in heat pump PTAC, or a heat pump window unit like Gradient.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#379

Post by antisthenes »

dmarlow wrote: post #306
mdasen wrote: post #111

I guess I'm wondering what this offers over calling an HVAC company and having them install a heat pump system. The system seems expensive at $14,000 for a 48k BTU 18 SEER system. It looks like I can get that for $4,000. Is the sleek software and design of your units worth the extra $10,000, especially when I'm not really going to see my air handler frequently? I do like that it monitors CO2 and offers humidification…

Same thought as well. I recently self installed an 18k BTU unit. The lines came pre-charged, but I wanted it to be run exactly to length. For someone to come and do just that part (cut, flare and vacuum/charge the lines) cost me just $150. I got the unit (a pioneer) for under $900. The rest of the world has heat pumps figured out, no need for a tesla-ish version charging a premium. Cost will be the biggest factor for…

> The rest of the world has heat pumps figured out, no need for a tesla-ish version charging a premium.

USA has heat pumps (the technology) figured out as well.

What the USA does NOT have figured out is how to accomplish trades like HVAC and construction without massive grift.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#380

Post by jtagen »

z3ugma wrote: post #12

Chris, one of my biggest worries is that your startup will get acquired or go out of business and then the firmware will leave me with a $14,000 brick. What if I want to keep using the cloud-based thermostat when your servers get shut off or moved to another system, or if something like Google Nest closing down their API happens after you've exited? This is an expensive system with an expected long life, and I'd want…

Wait, is this not going to have the usual "pair of wires you short to turn it on" feature of every furnace made so far? That's the ultimate control for when all the cloud features disappear and would be a deal-breaker for me.
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