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Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#231

Post by HEPA_As_Service »

heatpumpfan wrote: post #60
Scoundreller wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably better/more efficient defrost cycles. And maybe refrigerant choices.

Refrigerant, pressure, vapor injection, and a highly "managed" vapor compression cycle.

Regulation has helped a lot! Government can act as the unifier of buyer's not that long ago central systems scored 6 now this lowballs at 18.

If you increase the time of operation you can earn greater return on the costs invested. Commercial water heating is storing heat cheaply now to avoid storing water warm that will be used as that causes biofilms and disease.

Healthy sleep in room you want to work in upon rising creates a challenge for live pumping of heat. A sudden heat is best and that means storing from day before. We thrive sleeping in cold being woken by warmth.

$20,000 on a four ton heating load is compromised by this design tragically.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#232

Post by adanto6840 »

Wish you had been around a few years ago, before I took the plunge on two 5-ton Bosch "BOVA 2.0" heat pump units -- I'd have seriously considered your product.

The Bosch units are inverter driven and contain some interesting tech; we've had some issues with them, unfortunately I'm not sure that the HVAC industry is ready for such tech, but I do generally think it's the future.

I continually wish (and search Github bi-annually for) there was a way to see what frequency ("capacity") my BOVA units are running at -- aside from just being able to see the "staging" (purely controlled by temperature delta via Ecobee). There's a USB port on the board, but I can't find any info/data on it & obviously I don't want to take chances on >$15k -worth of HVAC units. But it'd sure be nice to see, at the very least, what the capacity/frequency is -- without having to physically take screws out to remove the panel covering the board.

Alas, maybe some day -- perhaps once my units are out of warranty I'll be daring enough to try and get something from that (very tantalizing) USB port.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#233

Post by sokoloff »

RetpolineDrama wrote: post #213
sokoloff wrote: post #59

I tried like hell to install an air-to-water heat pump instead of a replacement gas boiler and it didn't make anything close to economic sense to do so. What do I want from a heat-pump: I want it to work with a contact-closure (TT/XX) input to call for heat/cooling. Sure, if you have a fancy thermostat that works better, I'm going to read the brochure, but I'm not buying it if I find out it won't work with just a dry…

>but I'm not buying it if I find out it won't work with a dry contact input. But... why?

Because it's from a new entrant to the market and I don't know that their complex interface will be available, supported, and serviceable 12 years into the 20 year lifetime of the equipment. I do know that I will always be able to provide a dry contact closure in the event they go belly-up and the thermostat goes unsupported.

I have my current gas boiler working via an outdoor reset mechanism that provides flow water at 116°F to 135°F via a dry contact closure from the zone relay box. There's no reason for me to believe that Bosch (and others) can create a modulating boiler that works efficiently from just a dry contact closure input from the house (plus a flow temp sensor, a return temp sensor, an outdoor temp sensor, and a programmed reset curve in the heating unit), but that a heat pump would be unable to do the same.

The boiler can modulate up and down based on the delta-T between return and supply and the target supply temp from the outdoor reset. A heat pump could do exactly the same thing (with an inverter drive, it can do it with even more granularity than a multi-stage gas valve affords).

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#234

Post by vladgur »

dawnerd wrote: post #22
z3ugma wrote: post #12

Chris, one of my biggest worries is that your startup will get acquired or go out of business and then the firmware will leave me with a $14,000 brick. What if I want to keep using the cloud-based thermostat when your servers get shut off or moved to another system, or if something like Google Nest closing down their API happens after you've exited? This is an expensive system with an expected long life, and I'd want…

My thoughts too. Local heating/cooling should not be tied to the cloud period. If it doesn't use the normal wiring people already have it's a hard pass from me.

I agree. Use standardized wiring and let me control it from a $100 smart thermostat that i can replace if it becomes obsolete.

If i want HomeAssistant integration, ill buy an HA-compatible thermostat.

I dont want an expensive HVAC system to be in a walled garden of its own.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#235

Post by cmui »

soheil wrote: post #81
z3ugma wrote: post #12

Chris, one of my biggest worries is that your startup will get acquired or go out of business and then the firmware will leave me with a $14,000 brick. What if I want to keep using the cloud-based thermostat when your servers get shut off or moved to another system, or if something like Google Nest closing down their API happens after you've exited? This is an expensive system with an expected long life, and I'd want…

It'd be super helpful to mention the total cost will be close to $14k on the $100 pre-order page or at least somewhere near the top of the homepage. Also probably one of the implicit reasons this comment got upvoted.

Yeah, not a bad idea to place pricing (or a link to it) on the preorder page, in addition to main page.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#237

Post by brudgers »

gcheong wrote: post #230

How far away can the condenser be located from the air handler? Does it have to be outside or can it work in a garage? Also, how do I determine the size of system I need? Biggest problem with our current nat gas furnace, which isn't a fuel problem per se, is that it isn't zoned (which I can alleviate somewhat with the ecobee and its remote temp sensors) so I am considering installing mini-splits in the bedrooms and d…

If not part of a major remodel, a mini-split would by my recommendation for retrofit.

Horizontal runs usually aren't a problem with HVAC lines. Vertical runs can be.

But read the manual for limitations and when the lines need to be upsized.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#239

Post by vladgur »

The costs to install/replace an existing gas furnace-based system are ridiculous and are not likely to offer any cost benefits over long period of time, especially if you live somewhere with pricey electricity and (relatively) cheap natural gas.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#240

Post by codingdave »

I'm all for this effort, but this is not yet a compelling story. I've never had a problem getting a heat pump installed in prior homes. So if the market value is avoiding pain in hiring contractors... I simply have not felt that pain. Asking me to pre-order something that already exists when you have no physical prototypes feels like you are jumping the gun.

I do hope you succeed - I love heat pumps and want more of them to exist in this world. But not having a prototype yet and asking people what their ideas and experiences are feels like you are just starting market research, not that you are in a place to be taking orders.

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